Level Differentials for PCs

In people's experience, what kind of level difference creates problems in a game? I have seen cases where one higher level character has dominated and bullied other characters and I have seen where one character of significantly lower level then the others could make no useful contribution. I have also seen lower level characters be quite effective when specialized enough, and seen higher level characters be no more effective then the rest of the party members. In general, what should the limit be on level spread within a party?

That is largely dependent on the style of play in your group. The more role-play intensive, the less of an impact levels have. As a DM, I find the biggest challenge in creating encounters that will challenge the higher level characters and not kill the lower level ones at the same time. Though I would think that those of lower level would play themselves in a defensive manner long enough to close the gap some.

I think it depends on the players and the level they're at.

A two level gap from 1st to 3rd is far more significant than the 4 level gap between 16th and 20th?

I've seen a group where a 3 level gap was be a problem... the higher level character (a sorceror) threw his weight around and tried to bully the others. That was a 5th vs 8th level gap - which was pretty substantial. He also tried to dominate all the combat... pretty successfully it must be said. Don't game with them any more.

In another game one PC was a 6th level nobleman paladin. Another player and I were 3rd level and a 'bit dodgy'. A huge gap, evolving from an unfortunate chain of character deaths. However, we had a lot of fun running around doing the things his code of honour wouldn't let him do. We even rigged a jousting tourney in his favour, without his knowledge. I had a complete blast in that campaign.

As a gross generalisation - I think the more the game revolves around 'traditional style' combat, the bigger the problem a level gap is likely to be?

Putting a higher level character in the hands of a 'selfish' player could also cause problems. Likewise giving a 'power' player a lower level character could upset their enjoyment of the game.

it is kinda like having a bunch of "red shirts" around.

it is the responsibility of the "higher" lvl PCs to keep the "lower" lvl PCs alive.

and it is the responsibility of the "Lower" level guys to get killed.

Don't let them be apart more than 1 level, two at the most, unless you have not very much combat in there.

It might work that you have one special opponent for everyone in the party (although letting them fight in that way every single encounter is too much meta-gaming IMO. Sooner or later there is bound to be a bastard who will want to take the apparently weakest of them out quick to lessen the opposition), but you'll have a problem if one of the enemies breaks out the big spells of mass descruction and the lower-level party members aren't powerful enough to survive those spells.

And always use the rule that lower-level characters get more XP for the same fights, so they can catch up. On the other hand, the higher-level ones shouldn't get special assignments because of their power, for this will lead to an even bigger gap.

I try to keep level gaps at 1 maximum, because the farther apart they are, the more disparate the roles in the party become. At current we have a gap as high as two levels due to some people not being able to attend the past couple months' sessions, but I may wind up just raising them to one level below the highest when they play again.

It really depends on the game. As others have said, combats that challenge the high-level guys will often wipe out the low-level guys when you have more than a 2-3 level gap. (I remember one game where the party's wizard, who was like 5th or 6th level, died from damage from a spell that would have killed him if he'd made his save, and he was at full hp with an endurance up.)

My party has a fairly varied set of levels; last night's game included pcs and npcs from 18th-21st. One thing that made the major combat a success was that it consisted of tons of mooks (well, sorta- try fourteen shadow spiders, from the MM2) and one really bad dude (a winterwight, CR 23, from the ELH). The winterwight took a couple of rounds to reach the combat, giving even the lower level guys a chance to shine.

Also, lower level characters who are specialized are often able to really outdo others when it comes to their specialized field; for instance, one of the 18th level characters is a hunter of the dead, and when the party fights undead he rocks as hard as the 21st-level fighter.

Keeping the party at 1-level gap at most is probably a good policy. There are several ways to help do this:

1. Figure XP as if all the PC's were of the lower level, divide by total number of PC's, and award them to the lower-level PC's. Then go back and figure things normally for the higher-level PC's.

For instance, 3 level 8 PC's and 1 level 7 PC deal with 2 EL 9 encounters in the current session. 4 level 7 PC's would have earned 8,400 XP, so the single level 7 PC gets 2,100 XP. 4 level 8 PC's would have earned 7,200 XP, so the level 8 PC's get 1,800 XP. The level 7 PC closed the gap by 300 XP.

2. Go back to the "classic" method, taking away 1 Con point each time a character is raised from the dead rather than losing a level. If you feel this doesn't "hurt" enough, take away 2 Con points (this ALWAYS hurts). By the time the Con gets unacceptably low for the player, he will probably be ready to create another character anyway.

3. New PC's start at the beginning of the highest current party level, and any existing PC with less than that gets enough XP to match the new character. This is kludgy, but sometimes death teaches the survivors something in a way that might earn XP.

Hjorimir said:

That is largely dependent on the style of play in your group. The more role-play intensive, the less of an impact levels have. .

Click to expand...

This is essentially what I was going to say, but it also has to do with personalities in the group. Look at Piratecat's storyhour. KC brought in Dylrath with -no- equipment, xp, well no -anything- as a 1st level thief when the rest of the party was significantly higher in level and it was supposed to just be temporary, but she ended up staying with the character just because she liked him. I wish my party was like that... most folks are overly concerned with -balance-... whatever that means.

My group has a 1 level difference with 3 characters 12th and 3 13th. One Cohort of 12th level and a new cohort of 10th. For the most part the size of the party makes it not as big a deal. I can't comment much on the 10th cohort becuase she just showed up. I don't think she will be much of a problem. The characters will realize she's just not as powerful and she was designed for more of a support role. I guess it depends on Play style, Party size and postion. Positionmeaning a front rank fighter 2 levels lower than the party will be noticed versus a wizard in the back 2 levels down can appear to be almsot as good through the right scrolls and such.

later