New Feat: Permanent Permanency

Permanency is rather temporary, and I'd like a way to fix that. I propose a new feat:

PERMANENT PERMANENCY:
Prerequisites: Ability to cast Permanency; ability to cast 7th level Arcane spells.
Whenever a spell that has been made permanent upon the caster's person would otherwise end due to a dispel effect, the magic is instead only suppressed for 1d4 rounds.

Comments?

Related existing feats:

From Magic of Faerun:

SPELL GIRDING
-2 to Dispel Checks (why not just add 2 to the DC?)
<Applies to all spells, but obviously helps with Permanency>

I also found a couple of EPIC feats:

PERMANENT EMANATION [EPIC]
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 25 ranks, ability to cast the spell to be made permanent.
Benefit: Designate any one of the character’s spells whose area is an emanation from the character. This spell’s effect is permanent (though the character can dismiss or restart it as a free action). Effects that would normally dispel this spell instead suppress it for 2d4 rounds.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, select a different spell to become permanent

<Need one feat per spell, no XP cost, can take at 22nd level>

and

TENACIOUS MAGIC [EPIC]
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks.
Benefit: Choose one spell the character knows or spell-like ability the character possesses. Whenever the chosen form of magic would otherwise end due to a dispel effect, the magic is instead only suppressed for 1d4 rounds. The magic still ends when its duration expires, but the suppressed rounds do not count against its duration. The character can dismiss his or her own spell or spell-like ability (if dismissible) or dispel his or her own tenacious magic normally.
Special: A character can gain this feat multiple times. Each time he or she takes the feat, it applies to a different spell or spell-like ability.

<Can use this for Permanency (or Miracle for clerics); still need XP cost but applies to ALL uses of Permanency, not just personal ones; Can take at 21st level>

Looks good...I always found it annoying that you would burn XP on permanent spells only to have them taken down by the first Greater Dispel Magic to be thrown at you- particularly since over the course of one's adventuring career both you and your opponents' caster levels will improve but that of the permanent spells will remain static at what you cast them.

Just a side note. I have always hated to lose a spell you spent XP to make permanent as well. The point is that these spells become like a spell-like/supernatural ability. Thus I changed the Dispel to a Supression. Thus the permanent magical effect (aka a spell-like/supernatural ability) is suppressed by Dispel (and antimagic) not removed. Just a thought.

Khaalis said:

Just a side note. I have always hated the lose a spell you spent XP to make permanent as well. The point is that these spells become like a spell-like/supernatural ability. Thus I changed the Dispel to a Supression. Thus the permanent magical effect (aka a spell-like/supernatural ability) is suppressed by Dispel (and antimagic) not removed. Just a thought.

Click to expand...

That's the point of the feat. It is similar to item creation feats in that it allows you to create a permanent effect for the price of a feat.

In thinking about this more, I think this is the right way to go and it should probabaly be one of the standard creation feats.

In our campaign, my DM changed it so that a Permanency'd spell is only suppressed for 1d4 rounds rather than dispelled.

Artoomis said:

That's the point of the feat. It is similar to item creation feats in that it allows you to create a permanent effect for the price of a feat.

In thinking about this more, I think this is the right way to go and it should probabaly be one of the standard creation feats.

Click to expand...

how does this compare to standard item creation feats in terms of time and XP/gp costs? I know there's a limited number of spells that can be made permanent compared to turning any effect into an item, but it's still something to think about.

that said, I like the general idea, sicne the "non permanent permanence" never struck me as worth persueing compared to a item creation tack.

Kahuna Burger

Feats are so preciously scarce, no way I would waste one on something like this. I would suggest another route instead: make a 7th-level version of permanency spell with the same effect as your feat.

Just a reminder that Mordenkainen's Disjunction is going to kill it no matter what, despite your best efforts. And judging from your character level from your post in the rules forum, it's entirely possible you could run up against this problem.

1d4 rounds is short, if you want it that quick maybe more XP cost. Or slow it down, not sure how much though...

Yes, in a campaign I am in I created a new 7th level spell - Roman's Improved Permanency. The spell functions exactly the same as normal permanency except that it cannot be dispelled (though it can be suppressed). The caveat is that it is higher level and it costs 2x the standard XP to cast.

Shadeus said:

Feats are so preciously scarce, no way I would waste one on something like this. I would suggest another route instead: make a 7th-level version of permanency spell with the same effect as your feat.

Just a reminder that Mordenkainen's Disjunction is going to kill it no matter what, despite your best efforts. And judging from your character level from your post in the rules forum, it's entirely possible you could run up against this problem.

Click to expand...

You're right about Disjunction - it probably should be treated as an item for that - with a Will save.

Is that worth another feat, or simply built into the one feat? I think one feat should do it.

To compare:

Creating a wondrous item, use-activated, Darkvision item would take 2 x 3 x 2000 gp = 12,000 / 25 = 480 xp (no duration modifer) compared to permanency with 1,000 xp.

Detect magic: 1/2 x1 x 2000 = 1,000/25 = 40 xp (x 2 for duration modifier = 80 xp); permanency = 500 xp

Arcane Sight: 3 x 5 x 2000 = 30,000/25 = 1,200 xp (x 2 for duration modifer 2,400 xp); permanency = 1,500 xp

It looks okay - Permanency is very expensive for zero level spells (especially if you consider that they are slotless - another x 2), but about right for 2nd level spells and cheaper for 4th level spells.

I think it's odd that it works out that way, but it's okay, I think. Add in the caster-level requirements and the severe restriction on which spells you can do and it looks okay to me. I might also consider further restricting the list to the personal spells only, that is, exclude

Enlarge person
Magic fang
Magic fang, greater
Reduce person
Resistance
Telepathic bond

But that might be a bit too much of a restriction.