Does two-weapon fighting stack with flurry?

ForceUser

Explorer
I have the feeling I know the answer to this, and it's "no." But I don't have my PHB v3.5 in front of me right this second, so I can't say for sure. The reason I ask is this: in The Complete Warrior, the Exotic Weapon Master prestige class can pick up a feature called flurry of strikes, which works exactly like flurry of blows except only with the character's favored exotic double weapon.

Mulling over this ability, I began to wonder if it was meant to stack with Two-Weapon Fighting, which any exotic double weapon wielder who qualifies for this prestige class would have long since taken as a feat. If flurry of strikes is meant to stack with Two-Weapon Fighting, then a character with Improved- and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as well would benefit from an extra four attacks per round - one each for TWF, ITWF, GTWF, and flurry of strikes.

Such a character would then have eight attacks per round at 20th level, or nine when under the effect of haste (ten, perhaps, if you were a barbarian with the Whirling Frenzy variant of barbarian rage from Unearthed Arcana. Again, I don't have any books in front of me at the moment).

It then occured to me that D&D's game designers probably don't intend for any single character to have nine attacks per round, in any situation. It seems a bit silly. Rethinking, I concluded that perhaps flurry of strikes is meant to supercede Two-Weapon Fighting, which it does admirably in that a character with that ability adds his entire Strength bonus to damage on every attack, ignoring off-hand penalties. Pretty nifty ability, and well worth a level in Exotic Weapon Master for a character focused on an exotic double weapon.

What do you guys think?
 

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I'd say go for it. If you specialize entirely in using a double weapon, and you have all of the feats, you'll end up with 7 attacks at 20th level- 8 while hasted- so taking an entire level in a prestige class just to gain one more attack seems fine by me. Getting 8 attacks instead of 7 isn't all that huge of an advantage, when compared to the rest of the Two-weapon fighting feats.

Besides, if it didn't stack, who would take it?
 

Upon reading my PHB...

The language preventing the combination of flurry and TWF is gone in 3.5. Used to be it specifically stated in the flurry description you couldn't do it, but nowhere in 3.5 does it say you can't combine these two attack forms.

I guess at 20th level, the difference between a guy with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Flurry+GTWF is only one attack anyway (8 attacks vs. 7).

Sick.
 

Let's not forget that lovely BAB the flurry offers. Anyway, I agree that it should stack. Other wise I'm going to be very unhappy when I send a LE monk/assassin against my characters next session :] .
 


I always had doubts about this.

I thought Flurry of blows was originally meant to be used unarmed, and than special monk weapons could be used as replacement for each attack, but that if you wielded 2 monk weapons at the same time you used 2 attacks of the flurry series, one for each weapon, and the result was that you didn't get an extra attack from 2WF.

However, the 3.5 text seems to allow such a thing:

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x 1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.

In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.

To me the part which mentions that you use you full Str bonus and not 1.5 or 0.5 can suggest it's there for the case when you are using a weapon off-hand. It's kind of confusing anyway, I don't remember if there has been a 3.5 FAQ.
 

ForceUser said:
Mulling over this ability, I began to wonder if it was meant to stack with Two-Weapon Fighting, which any exotic double weapon wielder who qualifies for this prestige class would have long since taken as a feat. If flurry of strikes is meant to stack with Two-Weapon Fighting, then a character with Improved- and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as well would benefit from an extra four attacks per round - one each for TWF, ITWF, GTWF, and flurry of strikes.
Well, 8 attacks instead of 7 doesn't seem too broken to me ;)
 

Oh that agian.

No. Flurry and TWF don't stack.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes

When flurrying you treat all your attacks as unarmed strikes regardless of them being made with weapons.
 

AGGEMAM said:
When flurrying you treat all your attacks as unarmed strikes regardless of them being made with weapons.

That is actually your own personal addition.

SRD said:
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).

It's true that in a flurry even those special monk weapons use full Str bonus like an unarmed attack. But for example, you cannot treat them as natural attacks like you do unarmed strike.
 

And from your own quote:

There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.

Doesn't mean "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk using flurry of blows."

Flurry -> Unarmed OR Special Monk Weapons
Unarmed -> no off-hand

doesn't imply SMW -> no off-hand

I can however understand that Flurry may have been meant as a better version of 2WF since the start; no problem if you want to play that you either (1) use 2WF with 2 nunchakus for 2 attacks at -2 (and better with extra feats), OR (2) use FoB with 2 nuchakus for 2 attacks at -2 (and better later) and specifically forbid using both for 3 attacks at -4, but the description itself doesn't necessarily forbid it. That's why Iwanted to know if there is a 3.5 FAQ to specifically forbid.
 

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