[XPH] Psion versus Wizard/Sorcerer

Hey!

EDIT: Click HERE for a more elaborate summary!

What do you think about the balance between the new expanded Psionics Handbook and the existing arcane casters?

I must admit, that I havn't looked through everything yet, but what I have seen leaves me shuddering.

Psions seem extremely overpowered in comparison.

From a rough estimation, they have...

* As much powers per day as wizards have spells per day, if they distribute evenly.
* Many more high level powers per day than any other caster, if they choose so.
* Equal or more powers known as sorcerers.
* Always more high level powers known as sorcerers.
* In addition, low level powers that scale to high level powers, thus even more.
* Quicker high level access compared to sorcerers (as wizard).
* Bonus Feats, as wizard.
* Int as their primary stat, as wizard.
* Powers that are one-by-one more powerful than compareable spells.
* An about equally broad selection of powers as the arcane casters have spells.

So they basically get the best of both worlds plus some goodies like armor and no verbal/somatic compoments.

Tell me, how this is balanced, please?

What have I overlooked?

Bye
Thanee

Thanee said:

* As much powers per day as wizards have spells per day, if they distribute evenly.
* Many more high level powers per day than any other caster, if they choose so.
* Equal or more powers known as sorcerers.
* Always more high level powers known as sorcerers.
* In addition, low level powers that scale to high level powers, thus even more.
* Quicker high level access compared to sorcerers (as wizard).
* Bonus Feats, as wizard.
* Int as their primary stat, as wizard.
* Powers that are one-by-one more powerful than compareable spells.
* An about equally broad selection of powers as the arcane casters have spells.

So they basically get the best of both worlds plus some goodies like armor and no verbal/somatic compoments.

Click to expand...

I don't have the XPH yet, so I can't really comment, except to say, wow: do they really get all that? I think I want to play a psion now


glass.

Browsing through the item section... Psionatrices (+1 DC items for 8k are a joke in the DC bonus free 3.5 environment) and the horrible Torc which decreases all Power costs by one PP (for a way too low cost still) are still there...

Bye
Thanee

Hmm... I think the whole unbalancing comes from the fact that sorcerers are (IMO) underpowered when compared to wizards, so if psions are now similar in power to wizards, the sorcerers remain in the bottom of the power pyramid.

I have thought on giving sorcs 4+Int skill ranks per level and Con-based magic, but this is just hommade rules fixing.

I believe, that psions are a lot stronger than wizards as well.

I find the balance between sorcerer and wizard quite fair, actually.
Spontaneous casting is a huge benefit!

But psions have that (even better than that) and also all the benefits of the wizard class, with the sole exception of being able to add more powers simply by copying from written work.

Bye
Thanee

Do psions still have 4+Int skill ranks per level? This should have been nerfed, given the shift to Int as primary ability.

Psions get 2+Int skill ranks per level.

Also, psionics still don't scale with manifester level for free like arcane and divine magic do. I think that's huge.

Also, many of the powers are not as good as the equivalent spells. Catfall, in psionics, is like Feather Fall but only protects you for 10 feet per point you put in it, and you can only put in as many points as you have levels in the class. Also, some of the powers don't augment (scale) at all.

Particle_Man said:

Also, many of the powers are not as good as the equivalent spells.

Click to expand...

Most of those I have looked up so far, are as good if not better.

The non-automatic scaling, which Dinkeldog mentioned, is an issue, of course. Hard to say, if this is balanced by the fact, that you can scale many powers up to 9th level and generally are able to manifest more higher level powers. I'd see it as a pretty small disadvantage only.

So your 10th level Energy Ball still does 5d6 as a "3rd level power", but the Fireball does 10d6. OTOH the Energy Ball can be scaled to 10d6 with higher DC and a multitude of other benefits. Now at 15th level, the Fireball still does 10d6 and you are able to deal 15d6 with corresponding high DC and many other benefits still, all with the same power.

In some occasions (like psionic weapon) you need to spend more PP to get the same result, that's true.

Bye
Thanee

Now at 15th level, the Fireball still does 10d6 and you are able to deal 15d6 with corresponding high DC and many other benefits still, all with the same power.

Click to expand...

Sure the Sorcerers Fireball still does 10d6, but it only costs him a 3rd level spell slot. For the Psion to scale the Energy Ball up to 15d5 it would cost 15 power points, the equal to an 8th level spell slot. For just a 5th level spell slot the Sorcerer could have empowered their Fireball doing effectively 15d6 damage for 3 spell levels less.

Psions NEED all the extra power points just to keep their lower level powers competitive. They really need to augument their lower level powers to make them stay useful.

Where sorcerers and wizards really seem to win is in scalable buffing spells. A 16th level wizard can use a 3rd level spell to give a companion a +4 weapon for 16 hours. The psion can't make a +4 weapon till 17th level and it takes them 17 power points to do the same thing as a wizards 3rd level spell. I think once people have taken the psion out for a spin it will show that they are very versitle but really don't pack more of a punch than a wizard.