Nifft
Penguin Herder
This is my attempt to divorce dragon stats from their "color" (breath weapon). I absolutely hate that there's a chance for players to know so very much about a dragon simply by knowing its color and size. IMO, the color should be an indication of its breath weapon and energy immunity only.
The first thing you'll notice is that they start at size Tiny, and go to size Colossal. They don't spend as much time being Huge as the typical D&D dragon, either. This is certainly a change, but I feel it's necessary to fit the very wide range of dragon mythology into a single usable archtype. The eggs have to be small enough for a child to carry, while the end result should be as big as anything ever gets.
Their stats end up like greater dragons (red or gold), but start smaller.
Since breath weapon size is linked to dragon size, and I've linked size to age catagory, we can simplify the annoying dragon-table-mania. Now you can see damage and size in the same table! Woo-hoo! I've included what I think is reasonable poison damage for a dragon whose got a stinger and/or has a poison breath weapon (like the old 1e green dragon, or the grossly overpowered steel dragon).
We can also pre-calculate damage by age catagory:
(Obviously, a Full Attack would also involve a Bite...)
The above lists Caster Level (Sorcerer, of course), Spell Resistance and Frightful Presence DC, then the generic special abilities that every dragon gets. Some are not self-explanatory:
Alternate Form: The dragon picks a single specific humanoid form into which it can shift at will as a standard action. Dragons often pick attractive human or elven forms, but dwarven, gnome and halfling forms are not unknown.
Bloodline: This is the dragon's subtype (Fire, Cold, etc.), which determines its breath weapon and racial energy immunity (and perhaps vulnerability). It might determine even more than that, if you use Hellfire Wyrms or the like.
Shift Environment: At 5 years of age, a dragon can choose to move from one environment to another. When leaving its "native" environment, it loses all environment-granted abilities (see below). When it's lived consistantly in a new environment for one year, it may choose to gain the abilities associated with its new environment, which thereafter becomes its "native" environment.
Sorry for the side-scrolling. It's a wide table.
Anyway, the above allows me to create strong dragons for nearly every environment which are faithful to the spirit of the 3.5e color-coded dragons but are hopefully balanced against each other.
Now, assuming I've done an amazing job, and actually balanced these beasties against each other, what would the CR be for each age catagory?
Anyone got a genius system for finding CR? *bats eyebrows at Upper_Krust*
Thanks, -- N
Code:
Age Size Years HD (hp) Str Dex Con / Int Wis Cha
Wyrmling T 0-5 4d12+4 (30) 11 10 13 / 10 10 12
Very Young S 6-15 8d12+16 (68) 15 10 15 / 12 11 12
Young S 16-25 12d12+24 (102) 17 10 15 / 14 12 14
Juvenile M 26-50 14d12+42 (133) 21 10 17 / 14 13 14
Young Adult M 51-100 18d12+54 (171) 23 10 17 / 16 13 16
Adult L 101+ 22d12+88 (231) 29 10 19 / 16 15 18
Mature Adult L 201+ 26d12+130 (299) 31 10 21 / 18 15 20
Old H 401+ 30d12+180 (375) 35 10 23 / 18 17 22
Very Old H 601+ 33d12+231 (445) 37 10 25 / 20 19 24
Ancient G 801+ 36d12+360 (594) 41 10 31 / 22 21 26
Wyrm G 1001+ 39d12+429 (682) 43 10 33 / 24 23 28
Great Wyrm C 1201+ 42d12+504 (777) 45 10 35 / 26 25 30The first thing you'll notice is that they start at size Tiny, and go to size Colossal. They don't spend as much time being Huge as the typical D&D dragon, either. This is certainly a change, but I feel it's necessary to fit the very wide range of dragon mythology into a single usable archtype. The eggs have to be small enough for a child to carry, while the end result should be as big as anything ever gets.
Their stats end up like greater dragons (red or gold), but start smaller.
Code:
Age BW Dmg (DC) Poison Line/Cone BAB/Grapple
Wyrmling 2d10 (13) 1/1d2 Con 30 / 15 +4/ -4
Very Young 4d10 (16) 1/1d4 Con 40 / 20 +8/ +6
Young 6d10 (18) 1d2/1d4 Con 40 / 20 +12/+11
Juvenile 8d10 (20) 1d4/1d6 Con 60 / 30 +14/+19
Young Adult 10d10 (22) 1d6/1d8 Con 60 / 30 +18/+24
Adult 12d10 (25) 2d4/2d4 Con 80 / 40 +22/+35
Mature Adult 14d10 (28) 2d6/2d6 Con 80 / 40 +26/+36
Old 16d10 (31) 2d8/2d8 Con 100 / 50 +30/+50
Very Old 18d10 (33) 3d6/3d6 Con 100 / 50 +33/+54
Ancient 20d10 (38) 3d8/3d8 Con 120 / 60 +36/+63
Wyrm 22d10 (40) 4d6/4d6 Con 120 / 60 +39/+67
Great Wyrm 24d10 (43) 4d8/4d8 Con 140 / 70 +42/+75Since breath weapon size is linked to dragon size, and I've linked size to age catagory, we can simplify the annoying dragon-table-mania. Now you can see damage and size in the same table! Woo-hoo! I've included what I think is reasonable poison damage for a dragon whose got a stinger and/or has a poison breath weapon (like the old 1e green dragon, or the grossly overpowered steel dragon).
We can also pre-calculate damage by age catagory:
Code:
Age Bite Full Attack
Wyrmling +6 1d4 +1 (2 claws 1d3)
Very Young +11 1d6+2 +6 (2 claws 1d4+1)
Young +16 1d6+3 +11 (2 claws 1d4+1)
Juvenile +19 1d8+5 +14 (2 claws 1d6+2, 2 wings 1d4+2)
Young Adult +23 1d8+6 +18 (2 claws 1d6+3, 2 wings 1d4+3)
Adult +30 2d6+9 +25 (2 claws 1d8+4, 2 wings 1d6+4, slap 1d8+13)
Mature Adult +35 2d6+10 +30 (2 claws 1d8+5, 2 wings 1d6+5, slap 1d8+15)
Old +40 2d8+12 +35 (2 claws 2d6+6, 2 wings 1d8+6, slap 2d6+18, crush 2d8+18)
Very Old +44 2d8+13 +39 (2 claws 2d6+6, 2 wings 1d8+6, slap 2d6+19, crush 2d8+19)
Ancient +47 4d6+15 +42 (2 claws 2d8+7, 2 wings 2d6+7, slap 2d8+22, crush 4d6+22, sweep 2d6+22)
Wyrm +51 4d6+16 +46 (2 claws 2d8+8, 2 wings 2d6+8, slap 2d8+24, crush 4d6+24, sweep 2d6+24)
Great Wyrm +51 4d8+17 +46 (2 claws 4d6+8, 2 wings 2d8+8, slap 4d6+25, crush 4d8+25, sweep 2d8+25)(Obviously, a Full Attack would also involve a Bite...)
Code:
Age CL/SR/Fear Special F / R / W AC / Touch / Flat
Wyrmling --/--/-- Bloodline +5/ +4/ +4 18 (+2 Size, +6 Natural) / 12 / 18
Very Young --/--/-- Shift Environ +8/ +6/ +6 20 (+1 Size, +9 Natural) / 11 / 20
Young 1/--/-- Alternate Form +11/ +8/ +9 23 (+1 Size, +12 Natural) / 11 / 23
Juvenile 3/19/-- DR 5/magic +13/ +9/+10 25 (+15 Natural) / 10 / 25
Young Adult 5/21/-- Suggestion 1/d +15/+11/+12 28 (+18 Natural) / 10 / 28
Adult 7/23/25 DR 10/magic +17/+13/+15 30 (+21 Natural, -1 Size) / 9 / 30
Mature Adult 9/25/28 Suggestion 2/d +20/+15/+17 33 (+24 Natural, -1 Size) / 9 / 33
Old 11/27/31 DR 15/magic +22/+17/+20 35 (+27 Natural, -2 Size) / 8 / 35
Very Old 13/28/33 Suggestion 3/d +25/+18/+22 38 (+30 Natural, -2 Size) / 8 / 38
Ancient 15/30/36 DR 20/magic +30/+20/+25 39 (+33 Natural, -4 Size) / 6 / 39
Wyrm 17/32/38 Mass Sug. 1/d +32/+21/+27 42 (+36 Natural, -4 Size) / 6 / 42
Great Wyrm 19/34/41 DR 15/epic +36/+24/+31 41 (+39 Natural, -8 Size) / 2 / 41The above lists Caster Level (Sorcerer, of course), Spell Resistance and Frightful Presence DC, then the generic special abilities that every dragon gets. Some are not self-explanatory:
Alternate Form: The dragon picks a single specific humanoid form into which it can shift at will as a standard action. Dragons often pick attractive human or elven forms, but dwarven, gnome and halfling forms are not unknown.
Bloodline: This is the dragon's subtype (Fire, Cold, etc.), which determines its breath weapon and racial energy immunity (and perhaps vulnerability). It might determine even more than that, if you use Hellfire Wyrms or the like.
Shift Environment: At 5 years of age, a dragon can choose to move from one environment to another. When leaving its "native" environment, it loses all environment-granted abilities (see below). When it's lived consistantly in a new environment for one year, it may choose to gain the abilities associated with its new environment, which thereafter becomes its "native" environment.
Code:
Age/Environ Desert Forest Mountain Ocean Swamp Ice
Wyrmling Create Water Speak w/ Anim. Spider Climb Water Breath Water Breath Icewalking
Very Young Destroy Water
Young End. Elements Entangle Feather Fall Fog Cloud Entangle Fog Cloud
Juvenile
Young Adult
Adult
Mature Adult Hal. Terrain Plant Growth Find the Path Control Winds Plant Growth Freezing Fog
Old
Very Old Veil Tpt. via Plant Create Food Control Water Control Water Wall of Ice
Ancient
Wyrm Mirage Arcana Command Plants Move Earth Control Weather Command Plants Control Weather
Great WyrmSorry for the side-scrolling. It's a wide table.
Anyway, the above allows me to create strong dragons for nearly every environment which are faithful to the spirit of the 3.5e color-coded dragons but are hopefully balanced against each other.
Now, assuming I've done an amazing job, and actually balanced these beasties against each other, what would the CR be for each age catagory?
Anyone got a genius system for finding CR? *bats eyebrows at Upper_Krust*
Thanks, -- N
Last edited:
You can flavor what happens in that year as you like... Dragon Rituals or Druidic Atunement or whatever.
