Two-Weapon Fighting with Armor Spikes

devoblue · May 1, 2004

Apologies if this has been asked before, maybe its even in a FAQ, but...

I am trying to create an NPC that uses TWF without using 2 scimitars or being generally lame.

It is possible to use armor spikes as a light off-hand weapon, but is it legal to wield a greatsword while doing so?

Logic dictates that both hands are available, but the greatsword would be wielded in a way that is more than just primary hand.

Thoughts?

Thanee · May 1, 2004

Erm... armor spikes only work in a grapple.

Bye
Thanee

devoblue · May 1, 2004

That would be me forgeting the obvious and not bothering to read the description properly, thanks.

Doppleganger · May 1, 2004

No wait, besides grappling accessories, armor spikes are also regular melee weapons.

And yep, armor spikes can be used as an off-hand attack after a greatsword attack. In fact, there's a Sage Advice article on this subject in the most recent issue of Dragon (#319, May 2004)

Skip said:

When you fight with more than one weapon, you gain an extra attack (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting give you more attacks with the extra weapon). Armor spikes are a light weapon that can be used as the extra weapon.

If you attack only with your armor spikes during your turn (or use the armor spikes to make an attack of opportunity) you use them just like a regular weapon. If you use the full attack action, you can use armor spikes as either a primary light weapon or as an off-hand light weapon, even if you're using a shield or using a two-handed weapon. In these two latter cases, you're assumed to be kicking or kneeling your foe with your armor spikes.

Whenever you use armor spikes as an off-hand weapon, you suffer all the penalties for attacking with two weapons (see table 8-10 in the Player's Handbook). When using armor spikes along with a two-handed weapon, it's usually best to use the two-handed weapon as your primary attack and the armor spikes as the off-hand weapon. You can use the armor spikes as the primary weapon and the two-handed weapon as the off-hand attack, but when you do so, you don't get the benefit of using a light weapon in your off-hand.

You cannot, however, use your armor spikes to make a second off-hand attack when you're already fighting with two-weapons. If you have a weapon in both hands and armor spikes, you can attack with the weaons in your hands (and not with the armor spikes) or with one of the weapons in your hands and the armor spikes.

Thanee · May 1, 2004

Oh, it actually says that in the description of the armor spikes... can be used as a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack).

So, forget, what I have written above!

Bye
Thanee

Darklone · May 1, 2004

Wonderful. What Skip says kills TWF dudes even more. Why didn't they make it a rogue class ability from the start? Noone else can use it effectively anyhow.

devoblue · May 1, 2004

Ok, so I havent got around to reading #319 yet, too many other things in the reading pile ahead of it.

But given the objective of min-maxing, how does a regular twf guy even compete with the fighter with armor spikes and specialisation in a two handed weapon?

Ovinomancer · May 1, 2004

Darklone said:
Wonderful. What Skip says kills TWF dudes even more. Why didn't they make it a rogue class ability from the start? Noone else can use it effectively anyhow.

Rangers?

shilsen · May 1, 2004

devoblue said:
Ok, so I havent got around to reading #319 yet, too many other things in the reading pile ahead of it.

But given the objective of min-maxing, how does a regular twf guy even compete with the fighter with armor spikes and specialisation in a two handed weapon?

That's the problem - he doesn't. There are different ways in which the regular TWF guy can add to his effectiveness (use the same weapon in both hands so that feats like W. Focus apply to both, use elemental burst weapons, get a couple levls of rogue for sneak attack, etc.), but he's still going to lag a long way behind the guy with the two-hander.

Thanee · May 1, 2004

But given the objective of min-maxing, how does a regular twf guy even compete with the fighter with armor spikes and specialisation in a two handed weapon?

He looks cooler, armor spikes are not very sexy.

Seriously, I think, that this is simply superior to regular TWF. Especially the option to use of a shield in addition to TWF, it's basically like an extra arm.

Then again, lizardmen are also simply superior, since they get an extra attack on top (bite).

@Ovinomancer: I guess he was speaking of the power attack nerf and that classes without sneak attack have a hard time to make TWF more effective than just using a normal or even two-handed weapon weapon with power attack. There is certainly some truth in that (in one campaign we have a TWF ranger and a PA-THW barbarian, the difference in damage output is not funny), altho it´s still possible to build a decent TWF fighter that is not a rogue, I'm quite sure.

Bye
Thanee

Two-Weapon Fighting with Armor Spikes

devoblue

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Thanee

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devoblue

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Doppleganger

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Thanee

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Darklone

Registered User

devoblue

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Ovinomancer

No flips for you!

shilsen

Adventurer

Thanee

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