Two questions: skill items / DR and sneak

Please enlighten me:

1- Is it possible to fabricate a magical item that gives, say, a +30 on a skill ? I see that skill bonus has a cost of bonus squared x 100 gp, meaning 90,000 gp. While a high price, many high-leveled PC's would gladly pay that sum for a +30 on a skill. Am I missing something ?

2- If a rogue sneak-attacks a critter with DR 15. Assuming that he did 8 normal damage and 35 on the d6's sneak roll, is the damage completely negated because his basic 8 damage doesn't bypass the DR, or do you add 8 and 35, for a total of 42, minus DR, so 27 damage that affects the beast ?

Thanks for any and all input guys !

1 is, as always, up to DM's discretion. Skill bonus items were generally toned down in 3.5, so he'd be well within his rights to say no.

2 - yes, the Sneak is part of the attack, so you add the numbers together and then subtract DR from the total.

-Hyp.

Hypersmurf said:

1 is, as always, up to DM's discretion. Skill bonus items were generally toned down in 3.5, so he'd be well within his rights to say no.

2 - yes, the Sneak is part of the attack, so you add the numbers together and then subtract DR from the total.

-Hyp.

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Thanks for the quick and useful response Hyp.

How would YOU handle it in your game ? Up to how much would you allow a PC to create a single skill boosting item ?

Here are a few exemples of possible abuses... assume a 21st level character with the epic feat that gives +10 on the skill, a +30 item, a +11 from stat and/or synergies and/or other feats, and 24 ranks. That's about 65, for a 21st level PC. He could...

-An invisible blade (from CW) would almost be assured to always sneak his target (sense motive DC 75) [bluff],
-pinpoint all invisible creatures [spot],
-swim up a waterfall with a roll of 15, possibly assured at take ten if PC has a good strength [swim],
-lift a weapon from someone and hide it on yourself [sleight of hand],
-hide another person with yourself [hide],
-possibly slip your whole body through a space that is 2 inches square [escape artist]...

I'm not saying that these uses should absolutely be forbidden to a 21st level character, but it is still something to consider...

Trainz said:

Here are a few exemples of possible abuses... assume a 21st level character with the epic feat that gives +10 on the skill, a +30 item, a +11 from stat and/or synergies and/or other feats, and 24 ranks. That's about 65, for a 21st level PC. He could...

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I've just been building a Halfling Outrider/Aglarondan Griffonrider/Paladin of Liberty character for the exodus, and without a +30 item (only a +10 item, in fact), he has a +73 to his Ride skill - and the class-granted ability to make Ride checks to negate hits on his mount up to four times per round. That's 28 ranks, +15 from dexterity, +10 bonus as a Halfling Outrider(10), +10 bonus from Epic Skill Focus, and +10 from an item (saddle). A +93 would've been absolutely obscene, IMO.

Well, once you're at 73, there's very little you can't achieve anyways...

I know some of my PC's would just love that +30. I think I'm gonna permit it (but limit it at max +caster level i.e. a 30th level caster can make a +30 item).

Well, in the campaign I'm in, the GM's houseruled that skill items granting a bonus bigger than +10 are epic items. Really cuts down on the silly skill problems. YMMV, of course.

Trainz said:

Well, once you're at 73, there's very little you can't achieve anyways...

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Yes, but remember - this character will be using ride checks, four times per round, to set his mount's AC against a single attack each time. So, a twenty-point difference could be a big change.

Right now, against the first four attacks that don't miss anyway, the mount's AC will be re-set to an average of 83.5; with another +20 from an item, that'd put it at an average of 103.5 ... !

^_^

Now consider, if that weas a rogue's Open Lock skill, and they had Open Lock selected in their Skill Mastery list. All of a sudden, they can reliably get a 103 for any open lock check ... which is enough to take a single bent piece of wire (improvised tools, -2 penalty), and open an Amazing-grade lock (base DC 40) as a Free Action (+50 DC). With plenty of room to spare (net roll of 101, vs a net DC of 90).

Which means walking up to the Grand Royal Vault - secured with no less than thirty-eight Amazing quality adamantine locks - poke the door itself just once with your finger, and have all nearly-two-score locks just sort of ... pop open, of their own accord. X_X'

At least with only a +10 item, you can't open them as free actions - an Amazing lock would still require you to take a Move action, as that DC would beonly a 60. Good or lesser locks you could pull off as free actions, but this IS an early-epic character we're postulating. ^_^

IMC, anything over +10 will be Epic, AND, you will need to have twice as many ranks of a given skill, as the modifier you wish to craft.

So, for a +10 bonus to ride, the crafter (or someone else involved in the crafting process, at least) will have to have 20 ranks of Ride. For a +30, they'd need 60 ranks of ride. And so on. ^_^

Trainz said:

1- Is it possible to fabricate a magical item that gives, say, a +30 on a skill ?

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All "new items" are by their nature House-Rules that need to be allowed by the DM. If he allows "new items" to be created a la carte a bunch of stuff gets broken. The first orders from the players are usually (a) some +10 (or more) skill items, followed by (b) use-activated cure-light-wounds items, and then (c) all abilities put in Wondrous Items so they only need one crafting feat.

More on my website: www.superdan.net/dndfaq3.html

I like the idea of having items with over +10 be epic.

That said, the PC's are now level 22, so... I guess that's that. I KNOW I could rule it out, but skills are skills and I want my PC's to enjoy kewl abilities.

Thanks for all the input !

Trainz said:

I KNOW I could rule it out, but skills are skills and I want my PC's to enjoy kewl abilities.

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Not to nitpick, but you need to house-rule it in.
There are no +30 skill items in any rulebook.

That having been said, enjoy your game.