Elements of Magic revised Mage and Wizard!

In my current campaign (I'm sort of Co-GMing, sort of) we're respeccing the Mage and Wizard classes, using EoM. We've butchered these classes already, and when I came up with this fix, my GM was quite pleased. It lets us Balance the two Arcane Casting classes, use EoMr, and keep up with game cannon.

In our game, there are Wizards, who study arcane formulae and use books, and Mages, who cast spontaniously and cast all spells Stilled and Silent. Wizards must learn spells and Mages know all spells. We needed a way to balance these ideas, because Mages were more powerful than Wizards, even with reduced spells per day.

Here we go:

Wizards can only cast Signature Spells. Wizards may prepare Signature Spells from a spell book, even if they do not know the spell lists involved, casting them later without a caster level check. Wizards may cast Signature Spells directly out of a book, without preparing them, as a 2 Round Action. Wizards may only make their own signature spells from Spell Lists they know, even if they can cast other Signature Spells from a Book. Wizards may only cast their own Signature Spells without preperation or a book. Wizards recieve Craft Charged Item and one of three feats: Extra Magic Points, Extra Signature Spells, or Extra Spell Lists, as Bonus feats at first level. (Extra Spell Lists grants 2 Lists, and is still takable multiple times)

Mages cast Signature Spells normally. Mages can cast Non-Signature Spells from Spell Lists they know as a 2 Round Action. Mages can cast Non-Signature Spells from Spell Lists they do not know, upto half their MP limit (rounded down) as a 2 round action. All Mage spells are Subtle (Silent and Stilled) at no additional MP cost. Mages can cast Signature Spells out of a book, even if they do not know the Spell Lists involved, upto their full MP limit, but it takes one full Minute.

We grant the standard number of MP, 3+Class Level in Signature Spells, twice as many Cantrips, and we've thrown in the rule that every spell you cast costs a Cantrip, so we've effectively limited the number of spells per day. Magic Skills do not cost a Cantrip. Signature Spells can be changed daily for both classes, and can still only be crafted from Spell Lists Known. Wizards must share spells to get copies of spells they can not themselves make as Signature Spells, but Wizards are taught in a school in my campaign, and sharing is expected. Also note that we've doubled the cost of adding additional dice to Evoke and Heal spell lists.

Our game has no Clerics or Druids at the moment, and no Bards at all, so we do not yet have to balance these classes together. Given everything above, what do you all think?

- Kemrain the House Ruled.

Bump and Addendum.

Using the rules specified above, the rules under Spellcasting Limits on page 21 need to be changed.
Because you don't need to have a spell list to cast a spell using that list, it makes no sense to limit the ammount of MP you can put into a spell by the number of like spell lists you know. Previously, if you knew only 1 Evoke spell, you could put no more than 5 MP into Evoke enhancements. That limitation does not apply when using these modified rules.

Kemrain the Moist (It's Raining Out)

Kemrain: I would agree that Mages are much more powerful than Wizards! The free Subtle casting and casting from unknown spell lists are way too much.

My suggestions:
Wizards, Dont force the Charged item creation, but the Extra Sig Spells would be something any Wizard would want anyway. The rest I like! I can just imagine a bumbling Wizard searching through piles of scrolls during combat looking for the right spell to cast!

Mages, go to the opposite extreme and disallow a Mage from casting Signature spells at all. The Quicken Spell cost for a signature spell could cut the casting time down to a standard action. Drop the Silent and Stilled for free, thats way to powerful. Grant them extra spell lists equal to thier CHR modifer per level. Also, start them at a half caster level then increase by 1 caster level after that. They will be a little bit behind thier Wizard cousins in MPs to make up for the flexibility.

To sum it up, you would have two extremes, one side can cast spells quickly, but only ones that are prepared in advance. The other can cast a mass variety of spells, but takes time to get them right.

I have decided to cut cantrips from the system entirely, granting extra MP equal to the number of cantrips.. which boils down to the same result. The difference is you don't need to track how many cantrips you have used. A character with half a caster level would have a max MP cost of 1, which avoids the "I am a mage but can't cast anything" problem.

I am contemplating a system of splitting the elements into three sections where a caster of that type cannot use, or has to pay more, for lists from the opposite side of the spectrum. The three types would be Divine, based in Life, Damned, based in death, and Druidic, based on the core elements that make up the middle band on the element chart. My idea is to use this method to create Clerics and Druids.. but I am eargerly awaiting the second book so I don't have to do the hard [read creative] work

Bards I think could be handled by making them a subset of Mage, gaining only half a caster level per level [ack! that sounds wrong!] and their tradition would include requiring music, be it harp, drum, chanting, or song, as a component to the spell.

JMHO

Primitive Screwhead said:

I can just imagine a bumbling Wizard searching through piles of scrolls during combat looking for the right spell to cast!

Click to expand...

That's what I love about this design. It's clever.. And it looks great in a visual story mode.

What bugs me, though, is that they still don't feel entirely balanced, and I think you might be right about the sublte effect..
The problem, as I see it, is it's trying to emulate the 2nd edition psionics style of casting, where you just concentrate, and don't necessarily have a visual effect of the casting.. That's great and all, but forcing wizards to have one is a big minus for them.

That's why I think Wizards needs something that makes up for it.. If you were going to keep Mages having Silent and stilled spells, (bigger than two feats), then the Wizard needs something Specific, something that's special for them.
Scribe scroll should certainly be free for them, since their entire class depends on it.
But for a wizard specific effect, I'm at a loss..
Something about letting them "read magic" on scrolls for free? Ideas?

Mages, go to the opposite extreme and disallow a Mage from casting Signature spells at all.

Click to expand...

I understand where you're going with this, but I don't like it.. I still think both Mages and Wizards should cast spells, and both should be ABLE to learn new spells from a book, but that Wizards can cast out of a book in combat, and can memorize (prepare) spells that aren't from their spell-lists... Assuming they are in the book.

I think it's a great balance as it is.. Mages are good at flexibility, and can create new spells in combat, at half MP.
Wizards are spell-masters, and can learn any spell, even if it's not in a Spell-list..

Realisitically, thinking about the two, the main difference is that to cast non spell-list spells, there are two approaches-
The wizard has to use a memorized spell, from a book
where the mage has to use only half her total MP.

Both work well, and both balance, at least on the surface.. The problem comes in that when casting spell-list spells, the mage has a big bonus..
They can cast non signature spells, and the wizard can't.. I don't see what the wizard gets in return here.
Granted, above, they have a balance, but here, the mage seems ahead..

Kemrain, could you help to explain why I'm wrong?

The Cantrips = Spells / day is brilliant, and I love it very much. Then again, I've suggested it before as well

-Colin