Dungeon 112: Map problems

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
One of the interesting things about the reprinting of Maure Castle/Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure in Dungeon 112 is that I get to compare the maps with the original.

And, for all the pretty colours in the Dungeon maps, they suck compared to the originals.

The Dungeon maps continue the trend of showing no knowledge of what makes a map actually useful for a DM.

In my previous thread on this subject, I gave three things that would cause a map to have serious problems. All three are true for the maps in this issue, and none of those problems occured with the original maps.

What are those problems?

#1: Too small grid. The grid is reproduced at 2.5 mm squares. That's too small. 4 mm should be the minimum any grid should be at.

#2: Grid squares inappropriately representing 5 feet. This is linked to #1. The original map has squares representing 10 feet intervals. There is no known reason for the grid to be in 5 feet intervals. 5 feet intervals should be used for small maps. If these maps had been produced at 10', then the grid would have been 5 mm - perfect.

#1 and #2 combine to give the monstrosity that are areas 19-22 on the Great Hall level (level one). How big is that room? I don't know. I lose count. I could probably work it out quicker with a ruler than by counting the squares.

#3: Walls don't align to the grid. This one is completely unforgivable for this map. The original map did align to the grid. It was clear. It was possible for the PCs to map it and for the DM to accurately describe it. So why does the cartographer now feel the compulsion to arbitrarily place walls just anywhere?

#3 isn't universal. In the top left-hand corner of the maps, things align perfectly. No problem. As you make your way to the right-hand side and centre of the maps, things get out of hand.

See room #44 in Tomarast's Hold. That room is clearly aligned to 10' squares on the original map. Why isn't it aligned to the 5' squares on this map?

Look at the corridors immediately about room #44. What is going on there? Has the cartographer become bored and just started arbitrarily drawing walls in "about" the right places? It sure looks like it.

As a work of art, the Dungeon maps look pretty good. Unfortunately, we're playing D&D, not admiring pretty maps. Please, can we return to the days of functional maps that help the DM easily describe what the PCs are encountering?
 

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MerricB said:
As a work of art, the Dungeon maps look pretty good. Unfortunately, we're playing D&D, not admiring pretty maps. Please, can we return to the days of functional maps that help the DM easily describe what the PCs are encountering?

:D

i'm in the process of converting it back for my OD&D campaign. i agree.

can we return to the days of a functional edition? :D
 

I would like to echo this plea. Good on you for making the case so eloquently (again), Merric.

I can appreciate editors and graphic designers wanting to make Dungeon as beautiful and colourful as they can but, given the purpose of the maps and the probems you describe, I think there's a case for saying form is taking too much precedence over function. I also think that, in taking steps to increase the functionality of its maps, Dungeon's art department may find its workload decreases. This, in turn, may lead to fewer errors in the maps themselves.

I can only see one argument against making more functional maps and I don't think it's a very strong one. More functional maps could lack some of the aesthetic qualities of the current art style. The magazine might not look as appealing to the casual browser (aka potential purchaser*). The reason why I don't think that concern should win the day for the status quo is that, the magazine is unlikely to gain more readers from among casual browsers who find the art appealing, than it would from among those who understand what the magazine is for but who want more functionality from it.

* Ah yes. I used to have to attend seminars on magazine cover design. Market research suggests that, at the newsstand, it's covers - not content - that win most of the impulse purchase battles. If the potential consumer picks a up title, he's already much more likely to purchase it than the competition. As for the competition...
 
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I definitely agree about the maps. They look pretty, but they just aren't as functional as they used to be. For an example of how I prefer my maps (as a DM), see the Dungeon Crawl Classics series, or any old D&D module. Bring back standard map symbols. Heck, you could even have the pretty map with detail ALONG SIDE the easier to use map. With these newer maps, I can't edit and print easily, since they suck up so much color and detail...

Other than that, I love my Dungeon Magazine.


Chris
 


I know I recently picked up a copy of Dundjinni, but quickly took the time to make maps more akin to the old-style. Sure they arent a masterpiece painting, but OTOH they take up a LOT less ink, can be copied without losing any information, and on the whole are just a lot more useful to me.
 

MerricB,

Though I know the people at Paizo occasionally (?) read these boards, have you emailed them directly to, hopefully, get a more timely, and possibly official, reply?

I would be interested to see what they have to say, but who knows how long it will be before they (maybe) see this thread? Did they ever reply to your previous map thread?
 

At this point (my group is on level 2) I have given up using the Dungeon map and i am using the old module map. I ran into some scale problems and decided the hell with it. I do refrence it for changes....secret doors etc....

There is something to be said for Fully functional, easy to read and draw, Blue and White maps
 


MerricB said:
The Dungeon maps continue the trend of showing no knowledge of what makes a map actually useful for a DM.

As a work of art, the Dungeon maps look pretty good. Unfortunately, we're playing D&D, not admiring pretty maps. Please, can we return to the days of functional maps that help the DM easily describe what the PCs are encountering?
Absolutely, MerricB. I couldn't agree more. Once again, Paizo drops the ball on the maps (noticeable when they went full-color).

It's especially painful when you see people like Paizo's Keith Strohm vomit out (on these very boards) how they ensure the maps have utility. Nice try, Keith - but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

With that said, I love Dungeon, and will likely continue to subscribe until I drop dead (or they drop grids from their maps... but I don't believe that!).
 

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