Shield Bash?

Dimwhit · Aug 1, 2004

Could someone please tell me how a Shield Bash works in 3.5? I can't find it anywhere in the SRD. (I thought it would be in the special attacks part of the combat section, but I can't find it.) Thanks.

AuraSeer · Aug 1, 2004

The rules are in the Armor section.

Quick summary: You can choose to bash with the shield in any round. You lose its AC bonus until your next action, but you can use it to make off-hand attacks. You suffer the standard penalties for two-weapon fighting; a light shield counts as a light weapon, and a heavy shield counts as one-handed. (You can't bash with a buckler or tower shield.)

Yig · Aug 1, 2004

The damage is listed in the weapons tables.

If you take the Improved Shield Bash feat you don't lose you AC bonus for bashing.

Tatsukun · Aug 1, 2004

All that just begs the question; why would anyone do this, ever?

If you attack with a shield, you lose your AC from that shield (unless you have the feat). A shield does rather poor damage (1D3 for light, 1D4 for heavy). A spiked shield increases it to 1D4 for light, 1D6 for heavy).

Or, you can just attack with spiked armor, always do 1D6 and not need the feat to keep your shield AC. Also, spiked armor is a light weapon, so you can take less of a penalty.

I suppose there might be times when you really, really, need to do bludgeoning damage, but I don't think that's enough of a reason for anyone to plan on shield bashing a lot. After all, there are times when you really, really, need to do piercing damage (such as from armor spikes) too.

It seems to me that the ruling (I think in the FAQ??) that you can use two-weapon fighting with (anything) and armor spikes pretty much killed the shield bash.

One thing I really dislike about D&D right now is that there are a lot of clear winners when it comes to equipment. A great sword does more damage than anything else, has an equal critical rate, and is easily affordable. So if you use anything but a great sword, you are a step behind. In my game, I have changed them to 1D12 damage to make the other weapons at least compete.

Some things are better in all but one respect, which is ok to me. For example, full plate is better in every way than half plate. But, the extra cost makes up for it a little in my mind, so I have left it alone.

But now armor spike two weapon fighting is better in every way than the shield bash. Here we go again…

Is there something I'm missing? Is there at least one redeeming feature of the shield bash?

-Tatsu

sledged · Aug 1, 2004

Tatsukun said:
Is there something I'm missing? Is there at least one redeeming feature of the shield bash?

Without having the Improved Shield Bash feat? Only there versatility of going from weapon-shield fighting to two weapon fighting.

With the Improved Shield Bash feat? If you have a shield with a +5 enhancement bonus to attack/damage and a +5 enhancement to shield bonus. In addition to the versatility of going from weapon-shield fighting to two weapon-shield fighting.

Hypersmurf · Aug 1, 2004

sledged said:
Without having the Improved Shield Bash feat? Only there versatility of going from weapon-shield fighting to two weapon fighting.

With the Improved Shield Bash feat? If you have a shield with a +5 enhancement bonus to attack/damage and a +5 enhancement to shield bonus. In addition to the versatility of going from weapon-shield fighting to two weapon-shield fighting.

His point is that you could have your +5 shield, and +5 Armor Spikes, and effectively get the benefit of the ISB feat for free, and do more damage.

-Hyp.

Dimwhit · Aug 1, 2004

Thanks all. I was thinking of having my new character use the shield bash manuever as a tactic, but at the two-weapon fighting penalties, it is so not worth it. Seems a bit harsh to me.

But thanks for the info!

Eltern · Aug 1, 2004

No no no!

Improved Shield Bash
TWF (all three feats)
Weapon Focus, Spec, Greater Focus, Greater Spec: Shield (I'm playing in a game that uses weapon groups, so there's no issue between the different shields)

One hand, heavy shield, spiked. Other hand, light shield, spiked. Magic them up.

You are...the Turtle!!

Really, it's not that amazing, but it's just kinda neat. If you have feats left over somehow use them for other shieldy goodness. There's plenty of homebrew and 3rd party stuff giving you added bonuses.

It's just kinda flavorful, s'all.

I like it. Once I used them as sleds as we were being chased down a mountain by gnolls. Other times used them in various turtle kinda ways.

Eltern

Dimwhit · Aug 1, 2004

Eltern said:
If you have feats left over somehow use them for other shieldy goodness.

So to change the subject a bit, what feats out there do people recommend for shields (3.5)? There is Improved Shield Bash, of course. Any others? I'm going to ask my DM to allow Divine Shield from 3.0 (not sure why it didn't make it to 3.5). But I'd like to find some others that might be useful.

sledged · Aug 1, 2004

Dimwhit said:
So to change the subject a bit, what feats out there do people recommend for shields (3.5)? There is Improved Shield Bash, of course. Any others? I'm going to ask my DM to allow Divine Shield from 3.0 (not sure why it didn't make it to 3.5). But I'd like to find some others that might be useful.

If you're using the 2WF chain, I recommend all the feats you'd normally take with that chain, except the Two Weapon Defense feats. Other than Improved Shield Bash, and Divine Shield (it did make it to 3.5, but it's in CWarrior and not CDivine as one might expect), there is Double Hit from the MiniHB. If you like to charge a lot; Shield Charge, Shield Slam, Powerful Charge (MiniHB), Greater Powerful Charge, and Reckless Offense (Races of Faerun).