Apocalyptic Settings and Breaking Settings

[Barastrondo]

To me it looks like someone wanted an old house repainted and the furniture of two rooms replaced, and the decorator razed it to the ground and replaced it with a trailer, but uses the bricks from the old house for the storage shed and crammed the old furniture into the trailer.

Sure, but I think it's worth bearing in mind that "someone" doesn't imply "everyone," and it was less "decorator" than "landlord." (You can extend the simile further if you want by picking your least favorite elements of the setting and comparing them to wood rot or termites. In case you've always wanted to call Drizzt a termite but never had the context. I dunno.)

If the new setting is a trailer, then there's a lot to be said for modern trailer design; I find it a very impressive piece of work as far as providing a setting that is very welcoming to starting campaigns from the ground up. If that was their goal, as apparently it was, they've done an excellent job of it. The execution of getting there, via Spellplague and whatnot, that's pretty hard to make a call on. There are probably things I would have done differently (if I were a Realms devotee; bear in mind I'm kind of detached from the setting) on a personal taste level, and there are things that I think work pretty well as is. Here mileage is guaranteed to vary.

 

[Fenes]

One can make a great setting for new players without wrecking an old setting with many fans. You do not need to replace a steak with a hamburger just because some people want a hamburger.

 

[Barastrondo]

One can make a great setting for new players without wrecking an old setting with many fans. You do not need to replace a steak with a hamburger just because some people want a hamburger.

In my experience, "just because some people want X" is not why things like this happen. It may feel like it from a given outside perspective, but it's about as accurate as "just because people are mean and like to break stuff other people enjoy." If you're replacing steak with hamburger, there's usually something else at play — the steak business is in an increasing decline, the numbers suggest there's a really incredible opportunity for a quality hamburger joint, there's growing demand for steakburger fusion cuisine, things like that.

Changing your core business pretty significantly is a gamble, don't get me wrong. There's just usually some reason why a company goes for a gamble over a sure bet, if there actually is a sure bet in the first place.

 

[jensun]

One can make a great setting for new players without wrecking an old setting with many fans. You do not need to replace a steak with a hamburger just because some people want a hamburger.

This might be a reaosnable argument if your steak spontaneously combusted when the hamburger came out but it didnt.

 

[Fenes]

This might be a reaosnable argument if your steak spontaneously combusted when the hamburger came out but it didnt.

I don't get steak anymore in the restaurant I used to eat in. I can still cook it at home.

 

[WayneLigon]

So, why then the apocalyptic treatment of these settings? Why is it assumed that dismembering the settings is sexy and appealing? What do people see in a setting of failure and defeat?

There's several reasons to do the things you're talking about.

If you've never worked for a place that suddenly gets new management, then you may not be aware that 'putting your stamp on the place' is a real phenomenon. The new management always wants something big to say 'we did this'. The how and what of things doesn't much matter but they know that they have to make a big dramatic change to be remembered.

Destruction rather than creation is a cheap and easy way to make your mark, and it's lazy as well. It requires very little work other than picking an appropriate target.

The powers that be decide that things are 'too good', or that audiences have gotten too comfortable, so they decide to shake things up. Also, it's a way of getting out of painting yourself into a corner, story-wise. I'm sure that several times in FR history the designers have said to themselves 'I wish I could just junk the whole thing and start out fresh' which would be the best thing to do, but they know they can't. They have to figure out a way to introduce change, though, and an apocalyptic event is about the best way to do that.

As far as 'the PCs can't affect the setting', well... how often does that actually occur? I mean, really? I'd think the answer would be 'not often' save perhaps at the end of a campaign where you save the world. And that usually involved saving it, ie, really stopping change from happening.

There is also an interesting psychological thing I've noticed: when things are going good, people seem to need a certain amount of tragedy, in the theatrical sense. The better things are for people, the more they seek out tragedy in entertainment settings. Cyberpunk came about in an era of great prosperity. Conversely, in times of genuine stress, people tend to seek out happy endings and lighter escapist settings; look at the late 60's TV shows that were aired amid all the cultural turmoil of the time.

 

[Hussar]

I don't get steak anymore in the restaurant I used to eat in. I can still cook it at home.

Yeah, but lots and lots of people finally get to eat in that restaurant without having to fork over for moldy cheese and stale bread.

Funny how food analogies work.

The point is, for something who doesn't like the change, there is more than enough material to last for your entire lifetime. There's several THOUSAND pages of Realms material stretching back a couple of decades, not even counting novels.

Not everyone who would like to play in the Realms, wants to invest in that. Thus, the reboot. Now you get to play in that cool setting that lots of people go on about, and you get to do so on a fairly equal footing with longbeard grognards who're still bitching about Time of Troubles.

But, really the reason for this change is pretty easy to find. It's the RPGA. They wanted to do Living FR. That means they want lots and lots of people to do it. So, sticking with 3e FR isn't going to work. Too much baggage.

Like Bastrondo said - it's a garage sale. Clean out the crap. And, when you do that, if you're like me, you throw out anything and everything that you're wife isn't protecting 24/7.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Yeah, but lots and lots of people finally get to eat in that restaurant without having to fork over for moldy cheese and stale bread.

Funny how food analogies work.

The amazingly good burger place that people loved turned into a crappy, third rate diner. Sure, there's a lot of "new people" in there, but none of the old customers come back, and the new ones tend not to stick around for long. Plus, unlike the burger place, the new food stinks.

Funny how food analogies don't work when all you do is turn them into "YOUR FOOD WAS GROSS MY FOOD IS AWESOME HAR HAR I AM KING OF ANALOGIES."

 

[Hussar]

Hang on, I'm confused now. Was your place serving steak or burgers?

Look we get it. You don't like the changes. However, repeatedly banging the drum does not help your cause. They made changes to the setting. Instead of constantly complaining about these changes, why not figure out how to creatively work with these changes or spend time producing your own setting material that can be released OGL that is compatable with the Realms? Or runs under the Fansite shell and you can write stuff directly for the setting?

It's not like they pulled a Castle Greyhawk on the setting. A fair number of people seem to be willing to give the changes a fair shake and are not hung up on clearing out the clutter that has plagued the Realms for the past decade or so. The new material is very much in keeping with the Realms - high fantasy genre focuses on grand, sweeping plotlines that encompass the entire setting.

Repeatedly stating that the new stuff is just crap is not helping you.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

You do not need to replace a steak with a hamburger just because some people want a hamburger.

Yet that is what happens, most of the time and in most places. And the people who still want steak are repremanded.

It's not like they pulled a Castle Greyhawk on the setting.

I don't get this reference - what do you mean?

I started the thread to try to get at why people do this, to get at its appeal. I've not gotten a satisfactory responce.

Cea la veii.