Forked Thread: GTS 2009 D&D Seminar - 4e video game

[fnwc]

I would give my left nostril (I've already pledged my left _and_ right nuts) for Bioware to make a 4E game. Unfortunately, I don't think they like WotC's license restrictions for D&D; WotC basically have a PG game in mind, and Bio prefer to make M games these days....

Yeah, I don't think they're going to be doing any fantasy RPG licenses these days since they're making Dragon Age...

 

[fnwc]

Has there been any noise regarding a 4E computer game? Nearly a year after the launch of 4E, I had expected some kind of announcement, but I haven't seen anything.

The only thing I see is the next NWN2 expansion, which is still based off of 3E.

 

[Spatula]

If you're talking about tactical combat in a computer game that simulates D&D, you should look at Temple of Elemental Evil, made by (the now defunct) Troika.

...or the old SSI games from the 1e/2e days. One aspect of all those games that made them far better D&D "simulators" than any of the Bioware games is that they were truly turn-based. (and, as opposed to NWN, actually used the D&D rules)

I only played the patched version of ToEE and don't recall it being that buggy. I understand the shipped version was pretty bad, though.

 

[Derren]

Has there been any noise regarding a 4E computer game? Nearly a year after the launch of 4E, I had expected some kind of announcement, but I haven't seen anything.

The only thing I see is the next NWN2 expansion, which is still based off of 3E.

Nothing. Obsidian announced a few days ago that they are making a Fallout game which means they are likely operating at full capacity and don't have any resources left for a 4E game.
Its possible that Atari lets a other studio make such a game, but that is imo risky and considering Ataris financial situation unlikely.

A 4E PC game would have to be an entirely new franchise as it would alienate NWN fans when they now suddenly have to learn a complete new rules set and are not able to recreate their favourite characters. Also a 4E NWN game would be not compatible with the Editor and DM Mode.

And the NWN franchise seems to be too profitable to simply drop in favour of a new, untested 4E franchise. Also Atari said in a press conference that they are planning to continue to make new game for both, NWN and Baldurs Gate (most people guess they meant Dark Alliance with that) which means there isn't much room for a third 4E D&D franchise.

Still, maybe there are some guys at Atari/Obsidian working on Designs for a 4E game, but as this game requires a new engine don't expect any major information about it for the next 1 1/2 or 2 years

 

[ferratus]

A 4E PC game would have to be an entirely new franchise as it would alienate NWN fans when they now suddenly have to learn a complete new rules set and are not able to recreate their favourite characters. Also a 4E NWN game would be not compatible with the Editor and DM Mode.

That would have been the case with Neverwinter Nights vs. Baldur's Gate wouldn't it?

And the NWN franchise seems to be too profitable to simply drop in favour of a new, untested 4E franchise. Also Atari said in a press conference that they are planning to continue to make new game for both, NWN and Baldurs Gate (most people guess they meant Dark Alliance with that) which means there isn't much room for a third 4E D&D franchise.

Still, maybe there are some guys at Atari/Obsidian working on Designs for a 4E game, but as this game requires a new engine don't expect any major information about it for the next 1 1/2 or 2 years

This I could see. Atari crunching the numbers and assuming that the numbers were there to make another expansion and not take the risk of a new product. I'm not getting the sense that NWN 2 Expansion 3 was all that successful however.

 

[Derren]

That would have been the case with Neverwinter Nights vs. Baldur's Gate wouldn't it?

NWN and BG are different franchises so that kinda proves my point.

This I could see. Atari crunching the numbers and assuming that the numbers were there to make another expansion and not take the risk of a new product. I'm not getting the sense that NWN 2 Expansion 3 was all that successful however.

I guess you mean the 2nd expansion (Storms of Zehir). No, it was not recieved that well as it was more of a tech demo for maps than a real game. The first expansion on the other hand was a big hit and is considered to be better than the main game by most people.

Also, Obsidian is not limited to just make NWN 2 expansions. They can also make a NWN 3 which still would be 3E (same franchise) and maybe just import some lore from 4E (Like Baldurs Gate 2 used some 3E classes).

 

[fnwc]

And the NWN franchise seems to be too profitable to simply drop in favour of a new, untested 4E franchise. Also Atari said in a press conference that they are planning to continue to make new game for both, NWN and Baldurs Gate (most people guess they meant Dark Alliance with that) which means there isn't much room for a third 4E D&D franchise.

I disagree with you here in the sense that I don't think that 4E is untested. I get what you're saying, which is that it's untested for a CRPG, but it's been out for some time now and clearly has a player base.

Making a 4E game would allow Atari to leverage the marketing WoTC already has in place for 4E.

At any rate, I don't think that the NWN brand has to be tied to the 3E mechanics. Sure, the engine would have to be rebuilt, but it's not like this doesn't happen internally all the time anyway.

I can see your point regarding confusion of players who have used the old system, but at the same time, if you're using the D&D brand, I think it's important to keep in sync with what that brand is trying to represent. And let's be honest, that's 4E right now.

 

[fnwc]

I'm not getting the sense that NWN 2 Expansion 3 was all that successful however.

I personally feel that the NWN franchise has been getting worse and worse with each release from when NWN 1 was released, which I thought was a great game.

I didn't think NWN2 was that great, and I really dislike the Zehir expansion.

 

[Derren]

I disagree with you here in the sense that I don't think that 4E is untested. I get what you're saying, which is that it's untested for a CRPG, but it's been out for some time now and clearly has a player base.

Making a 4E game would allow Atari to leverage the marketing WoTC already has in place for 4E.

At any rate, I don't think that the NWN brand has to be tied to the 3E mechanics. Sure, the engine would have to be rebuilt, but it's not like this doesn't happen internally all the time anyway.

I can see your point regarding confusion of players who have used the old system, but at the same time, if you're using the D&D brand, I think it's important to keep in sync with what that brand is trying to represent. And let's be honest, that's 4E right now.

For the most part the people who play NWN don't care which edition of D&D the game use. They are not D&D players but NWN players. Some of them (more than you likely think) probably didn't even know that there is a PnP version of "NWN". And those people would be very upset if the next NWN game suddenly changed everything.

The PnP customers and CRPG customers are two different groups without much overlap. And while 4E is already established on the PnP market it is entirely untested on the CRPG market.

Also 4E needs a new engine or at least a very heavily upgraded Aurora (NWN 2) one.
NWN 2 for example can't handle feats applying to "powers". For example it was not possible to apply any archer feat to a warlocks blast because of engine limitations. Feats only work on basic attacks. That is highly inconvenient in 4E.
Also the game must keep up with the graphic development.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I personally feel that the NWN franchise has been getting worse and worse with each release from when NWN 1 was released, which I thought was a great game.

I didn't think NWN2 was that great, and I really dislike the Zehir expansion.

Yes, I must unfortunately agree.

We played Storm over Zehir in an online group, but the extended load screens caused by dozens of "random" encounters where just frustrating. The whole overland travel + trade wasn't to my liking, either. Very similar in a way to the previous extensions Spirit Thingy. I hated that. Let me explore the world at my pace!

The rules subsystems the NWN team added to the game rarely appealed to me (NWN1 Expensians Item Creation via a Forge was great), but stuff like "Parry" or the "find dozens of items to maybe create some magical artifact"...

I suppose the latter is something some people like, but both NWN 1 and 2 just lack smooth transitions between places, and travel-intensive stuff like trade or item crafting just doesn't work with the system in my opinion.

I actually think Cadfan (IIRC) idea about making encounters more scripted works far better in NWN.

Of course, if they throw away their codebase and start anew with different concepts, they could pull off something different.