Iterative Attacks

Is the proposed trade-off acceptable?

  • YES. Iterative attacks need streamlining, this will work.

    Votes: 75 58.1%
  • NO. Iterative attacks need fixing, but this isn't acceptable.

    Votes: 20 15.5%
  • NO. I never had a problem with iterative attacks anyway.

    Votes: 23 17.8%
  • Other: Let's hear it!

    Votes: 11 8.5%

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
I'm just trying to figure out why they need to be kept is all.

I actually had a longer reply typed for you yesterday, but the BSOD ate it.

They don't need to be kept-- except in the sense that rejiggering all the monster ACs and hit points for a rule system with 10 years of supplements would certainly be the "hard way" as opposed to what I finally settled on.

But they should be kept because they improve the play experience. The game feels "sweetest" when combat is a series of infrequent failures, combined with successes of varying degrees, all contributing to the slow but inevitable ablation of resources.

As opposed to a boolean system where each roll is either hit and kill, or miss and suck; where each roll is either save and nothing happens, or you fail and die.

Victory should come like the dawn, not like a light switch.

You want a system that can be swingy without breaking: A system that will support a run-of-the-mill hit for 10 points of damage and a power attack critical for 50+ points of damage.

There are other reasons-- economy of actions, meaningful tactical choices, etc. Iterative attacks are part of a design package I'd call, "More fun."

When iterative attacks were slowing down the game, more fun was being suppressed. It was less fun because nobody wants to sit and wait on the player to roll multiple times and recalculate each hit or miss on the fly. Designate ONE target number you're looking for on the dice, and throw the batch.

My change was made to speed up play, not to remove some specified number of attacks and reduce it to a smaller "correct" number of attacks. Why did I choose two attacks? Because I found that to be the right number of attacks at the attack penalty that produces results the most similar to the damage output I wanted to see.

Errrr... these look the same to me. Am I missing something else?

Funny, in the light of a new morning they look the same to me, too. I think I was rattled by the BSOD when I came back to post a reply. Substitute some other way of getting an additional attack. ;)
 

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Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
edit...
As opposed to a boolean system where each roll is either hit and kill, or miss and suck; where each roll is either save and nothing happens, or you fail and die.... edit

Caution: Humorous comment approaching:

[sblock=this is only a joke!]
what about nand gates and nor gates? do they exist in dice rolling?

hit and suck or save and die

are schmidt triggers found on traps?
[/sblock]

hope it was worth a chuckle.
 

ValhallaGH

Explorer
Sorry, it sorta seemed to me like ValhallaGH was implying/suggesting that.
I wasn't. I was talking about player controls over probabilities, that's all. The "inflated AC" thing was all you. ;)

The game feels "sweetest" when combat is a series of infrequent failures, combined with successes of varying degrees, all contributing to the slow but inevitable ablation of resources.

As opposed to a boolean system where each roll is either hit and kill, or miss and suck; where each roll is either save and nothing happens, or you fail and die.

Victory should come like the dawn, not like a light switch.
...
That is a brilliantly elegant summation of where most gaming is fun. I'll just be sticking that into my sig now....
 

kerleth

Explorer
In general I agree with your replacement for Iterative attacks wulf. One point, though. If I'm not mistaken you can make your first attack and then decide whether or not to continue into a full attack action. While I suppose it rarely matters, your system would not allow that since you have to decide beforehand whether or not you'll take the penalty on your first attack.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
In general I agree with your replacement for Iterative attacks wulf. One point, though. If I'm not mistaken you can make your first attack and then decide whether or not to continue into a full attack action. While I suppose it rarely matters, your system would not allow that since you have to decide beforehand whether or not you'll take the penalty on your first attack.
You're right. You can't do that anymore.

You're either going to "hurry" your attacks (-2/-2), or you're not.

You can either aim for the bullseye, or you can squeeze off two shots. You can't do both.
 

Kid Charlemagne

I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
You could allow the option to abort the second attack to take a move action - meaning that you'd take the -2 penalty on the first attack but wouldn't totally lose out if you drop the foe in one blow.
 




Set

First Post
Seems like a nice workable system.

My own tweak was to allow anyone able to make an iterative attack to instead make a Mighty Blow as a full attack action.

For each iterative attack lost, the single attack gets bonus damage equal to the base damage of the attack.

Example: Tyra the 11th level Paladin has BAB +11 and would normally get three attacks, at +11/+6/+1 with her Greatsword. Instead, she makes a Mighty Blow as her full attack action, making one swing at her full attack bonus, and getting +4d6 damage added to her base damage of 2d6 +Str +enhancement bonus +smite, etc.

This only works with iterative attacks. Extra attacks from haste or two-weapon fighting (etc.) cannot be combined with a Mighty Blow.
 

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