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Casting with Concentration

xXxTheBeastxXx

Explorer
I came up with this not too long ago, and decided to share it with my fellow EN worlders. There are two systems posted below, due to discrepancies concerning balance. They are almost identical, but for one difference. They are presented as two different options to the concentration system. Choose the one that works for you.

When I started playing D&D, I loved almost everything. The only problem I had with the system was the vancian casting system (spells per day). I understood the point. It was supposed to represent the amount of energy that a character could have allotted to casting spells in any given day. However, it just never worked for me. I preferred the idea of a more gritty caster, whose spells gradually get harder and harder to cast as the day wears on and he expends his energy. I tried several systems. Spell points, recharge magic, nothing worked. After a while, however, I did come across something that I felt might just work.

3.5's Tome of Magic contained a nice class called the Truenamer. It was an obvious attempt at exploiting the casting system in the Inheritance cycle of books (Eragon, Eldest, etc.), but the actual system it used intrigued me. It had its own skill, called truenaming, and in order to cast, instead of a daily spell allotment, it made a skill check. The DC was 15 + spell level + 1 per spell of that particular level already cast that day. Therefore, if it were to cast a 3rd level spell, having already cast 2 3rd level spells that day, the check DC would be 20 (15 + 3 + 2).

This was close to what I was looking for, but not quite there. It seemed a little complex (I didn't like the idea of separating the DCs by spell level, and DC 15 seemed a little high for low-level characters) and unfinished.

So I began tinkering. And eventually, my tinkerings took me to Pathfinder, where I found exactly what I was looking for. The Concentration Check. Concentration was used as a skill in D&D 3e and 3.5. Pathfinder took it in a different direction, granting it as an automatic ability of all casters, the bonus being equivalent to your level + your main casting modifier (wis for divine casters, int for wizards, cha for spontaneous casters). This worked perfectly for my idea. It was inherent to all casters, and essentially equivalent within all casters.

The Concentration System: "Tier System"

It's a simple system, using the concentration check instead of the truenaming skill. This ensures that no one can take skill focus to give themselves an unfair advantage at low levels. Instead of a base DC of 15, I chose a base DC of 10. I also changed the rate at which the DC increases. Instead of having a separate DC for each level of spell, you have one universal "casting" DC, and each spell you cast increases that DC by one, to, or three (I'll go into more depth on this in the next paragraph). So the DC is 10 + spell level + a number based on the spells cast already that day, regardless of level. The lower DC allows for easier casting at low levels. However, the DC goes up for every spell cast, without differentiating between levels. Therefore, it becomes increasingly harder to cast as the day goes on, regardless of the spell you're casting (with the truenamer, if your level 3 DC got too high for you to cast, you could just default to level 2, where the DC was still low).

~~~The following was added when White Wizard brought a problem to my attention.~~~
Concerning the number that's added to the DC based on how many spells you've cast this day already, it's variable, depending on the level of spell cast. First, we break up the spells into three "tiers," low, medium and high. Low spells are level 1-3, medium are level 4-6, and high are 7-9. The number added to the DC is based on these tiers. A low spell will add +1 to the DC, a medium will add +2, and a high spell will add +3. This essentially means that higher level spells take more energy to use, and that number is reflected in the DC.

So, for example, let's say we have a 13th level wizard. We'll assume he hasn't cast anything so far today. He casts forcecage on a group of low-level enemies to keep them contained whilst he takes on their leader. The DC for casting forcecage will be 17 (10 + a level 7 spell). Now he turns toward the leader and casts Greater Heroism on himself. The DC to cast it is 19 (10 + a 6th level spell + 3 for already casting a high spell today). On his third turn, he throws a scorching ray, the DC for which is 18 (10 + a 3rd level spell + 3 for a high spell already cast today + 2 for a medium spell already cast today).

This way, higher spells take a greater toll on the caster so they can't just spam spells like Finger of Death constantly without taking a toll on their casting DC.
~~~End of Edited Content~~~

So, in order to cast a spell, you make a concentration check, the DC being 10 + the spell level + 1, 2, or 3 per spell cast that day already, based on the spell's tier. If you succeed, you cast the spell without issue. If you fail, the spell fails. However, even if you fail, the DC for casting still goes up, representing the fact that the caster still expended energy, even if the spell didn't work.

Next on the list of things to figure out is the question of bonus spells. It didn't take me long to figure this one out, once I had the base concept down. Instead of adding bonus spells for a high ability modifier, you gain a bonus on your concentration checks to cast spells. This bonus is +1 at a score of 20 or higher, and +1 more for every 10 points the score increases (+2 at a score of 30, +3 at a score of 40, etc.). This is made under the assumption that you would have a +0 at an ability score of 10.

Now we come to Arcane spell failure, which could be kept exactly as it is, depending on your tastes. I prefer a simpler method: I modify the casting DC. For every 5% of spell failure you have, the DC for casting a spell increases by 1. I chose 5% because of the token die being used, the d20. 100%/20 = 5%. So if you have 100% spell failure, you have a +20 on your DC when casting a spell, therefore making it nearly (but not completely, I believe you should always have a chance to cast, however small) impossible to cast a spell.

The final issue we must concern ourselves with is that of the wizard's choice in schools. Normally, a wizard gets a bonus spell of their chosen school to cast every day. In my concentration system, you instead simply get a +1 on your concentration checks to cast your chosen school. And as for your prohibited schools, which normally cost 2 spell slots to prepare, you simply take a -2 on your concentration checks to cast it.

The last, and most pressing question, concerns cantrips and orisons. In standard pathfinder, you can cast them an unlimited amount of times per day. I don't change that. You do not have to make a check to cast 0-level spells. This increases the power of the caster, as they are now, essentially, immune to arcane spell failure when they cast 0-level spells. I have no problem with this, as 0 level spells really take no effort anyway.

Summary

To cast a spell, make a concentration check. The DC for the check is:

10 + spell level + 1, 2, or 3 per spell cast already based on the spell's tier + 1 per 5% of arcane spell failure.

A spell's tier is either low (level 1-3) and adds a +1 to the DC, medium (4-6) and adds a +2, or high (7-9) and adds a +3.

You get a +1 bonus on your concentration check per 10 ability points in your casting score above 10 (+1 at 20, +2 at 30, etc.).

As a wizard, you gain a +1 on your concentration check when casting a spell of your chosen school, and a -2 when casting a spell of your prohibited school.

And 0-level spells take no check to cast, and are castable an unlimited number of times per day.

The Concentration System: "+1 per spell"

This system is almost identical to the one above. However, with your universal "casting" DC, each spell you cast increases that DC by +1, instead of +1, +2, or +3. This allows for more spells per day, and is meant for a more mature group that won't be tempted to spam high-level spells because they can. So the DC is 10 + spell level + 1 per spell cast already that day, regardless of level.

Concerning Preparation

Some classes, as we know, prepare their spells ahead of time. This doesn't change, and in fact is very similar to the way that one prepares spells in the Spell Point system. They prepare spells as they normally would, and essentially treat their list of prepared spells as the sorcerer treats their list of known spells, the major difference being that the preparation-caster's list changes every day. They do not get bonus spells prepared for a high ability score.

Final Summary

To cast a spell, make a concentration check. The DC for the check is:

10 + spell level + 1 per spell cast already based on the spell's class + 1 per 5% of arcane spell failure.

You get a +1 bonus on your concentration check per 10 ability points in your casting score above 10 (+1 at 20, +2 at 30, etc.).

As a wizard, you gain a +1 on your concentration check when casting a spell of your chosen school, and a -2 when casting a spell of your prohibited school.

And 0-level spells take no check to cast, and are castable an unlimited number of times per day.


Overall, I've play-tested the system and it works very well so far. My players love it, and accept it as a much more fun alternative to the vancian system, with less bookkeeping and more chance involved, making more tense situations.

I place it here on EN world so anyone who likes the idea can try for themselves.

-The Beast.

Note: I don't know if this system has already been implemented elsewhere by someone else, whether they are a single person or a company. If it has, I want to assure that person or that company that this system is purely a product of my mind and was not meant to expose any of their work without permission.
 
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White Wizard

First Post
It's an interesting idea and worth trying. I may see what my group thinks. I want to point out that I do think you need some kind of adjustment based off spell level though.

Take a fifth level wizard for example. Under this system he is not limited to spells per day, he is just limited by the amount of power it takes to cast a spell. Since all spells cost the same amount of power why not use his 3rd level spells every time? It makes no difference to him as he will potentially be able to cast the same amount if he did all 1st level spells.

This situation gets more abusive as he gets into higher levels and can blast off a disintegrate every round, or a finger of death, power word kill, and so forth.

If I were to incorporate this the level of the spell would have to factor in. Still it's an interesting idea that sparks some thought that I might try, but I never had a big issue with casting RAW.
 

It's an interesting idea and worth trying. I may see what my group thinks. I want to point out that I do think you need some kind of adjustment based off spell level though.

Take a fifth level wizard for example. Under this system he is not limited to spells per day, he is just limited by the amount of power it takes to cast a spell. Since all spells cost the same amount of power why not use his 3rd level spells every time? It makes no difference to him as he will potentially be able to cast the same amount if he did all 1st level spells.

This situation gets more abusive as he gets into higher levels and can blast off a disintegrate every round, or a finger of death, power word kill, and so forth.

If I were to incorporate this the level of the spell would have to factor in. Still it's an interesting idea that sparks some thought and I might try, but I never had a bug issue with casting RAW.

This reminds me a bit when I made a house rule converting all Sorcerer spells into spell points. It basically allowed them to either spam magic missiles (etc) all the time or get even more high-level slots by sacrificing low level ones.

Personally I prefer systems where spellcasting is unlimited but tires the spellcaster and potently causes damage (Shadowrun, Star Wars D20, etc.). I also liked the 3.5 Psionics system because it forced you to spend extra power points if you wanted to buff your powers (so instead of getting 5d4+5 for magic missile-like powers you got only 1d4+1 unless you were willing to pay the price of a higher level power/spell.

But all in all vancian spellcasting works ok for me. Good luck with using concentration, and ty for pointing out that it's not a skill anymore (didn't notice that).
 

xXxTheBeastxXx

Explorer
It's an interesting idea and worth trying. I may see what my group thinks. I want to point out that I do think you need some kind of adjustment based off spell level though.

Take a fifth level wizard for example. Under this system he is not limited to spells per day, he is just limited by the amount of power it takes to cast a spell. Since all spells cost the same amount of power why not use his 3rd level spells every time? It makes no difference to him as he will potentially be able to cast the same amount if he did all 1st level spells.

This situation gets more abusive as he gets into higher levels and can blast off a disintegrate every round, or a finger of death, power word kill, and so forth.

I believe I understand your problem. You believe that the amount the DC increases each time you cast a spell should be variable based on the level of the spell being cast. I actually went over this idea, and found no need for it in my campaigns. We were looking for a caster that's more liberal with their casting, using it for menial, every-day tasks as well as combat. I felt that they shouldn't be penalized too much for casting a higher level spell that really had no effect on the quest at hand. However, I can understand that a powergamer could have a field day with this system as it stands. I believe I have a system that might work.

Why not gauge the spells as low, medium and high? Low spells will be levels 1-3 (making spells like fireball and lightning bolt the kings of the low spells), medium will be 4-6, and high being 7-9. If you divide them up like that, it's easy to, say, assign each category a number. To keep it simple, we'll go with 1, 2, and 3. Casting a low spell adds +1 to the DC, a medium spell adds +2, and a high spell adds +3.

I think that would help with any powergaming problems that might arise. So if we take a 7th level wizard, and have him cast Wall of Fire (a 4th level spell), his DC would be 14. If he then followed it up with a fireball, the DC would be 15, +3 for casting a third level spell, and +2 for already having cast a medium spell that day (the wall of fire). In essence, the base DC has jumped from 10 to 12.

I'll edit the OP, and give you credit for bringing up the problem.
 

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
This system looks really cool - I think I like it! I've got three campaigns running and am not inclined to institute major changes to them, but if/when they end I may just give this one a try!

I do have one concern:

Concerning Preparation

Some classes, as we know, prepare their spells ahead of time. This doesn't change, and in fact is very similar to the way that one prepares spells in the Spell Point system. They prepare spells as they normally would, and essentially treat their list of prepared spells as the sorcerer treats their list of known spells, the major difference being that the preparation-caster's list changes every day. They do not get bonus spells prepared for a high ability score.

I'm not really a powerhouse thinker when it comes to unanticipated effects of rules changes - one reason I don't use a lot of house rules. But on first reading it seems to me that this eliminates the strength that differentiates spontaneous casters (Sorcerer's in particular) from prepared casters. In fact it looks like it tips the scales strongly to prepared casters.

The sorcerer's strength - when it comes to actual spellcasting - is the number of times they can cast per day. This is balanced by a very limited number of spells. Unless I missed something, this system allows wizards to cast with the same frequency as sorcerers (the same increasing chances of failure to concentrate) but still allows them a much wider selection of spells.

Again, I'm not good with solving such problems so I'm afraid I don't have any helpful solutions - sorry about that. :erm:
 

xXxTheBeastxXx

Explorer
The sorcerer's strength - when it comes to actual spellcasting - is the number of times they can cast per day. This is balanced by a very limited number of spells. Unless I missed something, this system allows wizards to cast with the same frequency as sorcerers (the same increasing chances of failure to concentrate) but still allows them a much wider selection of spells.

Again, I'm not good with solving such problems so I'm afraid I don't have any helpful solutions - sorry about that. :erm:


This was exactly the problem with spell points, and I have yet to find a solution. But then, I'm a fan of playing for flavor anyway.
 

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
This was exactly the problem with spell points, and I have yet to find a solution. But then, I'm a fan of playing for flavor anyway.

The most obvious solution would be to give Sorcerers a bonus to their concentration check - simulating the fact that they cast through natural talent. As a result they don't use as much energy per casting, or some such.

A more accurate solution, slightly different mechanically but with the same overall effect, would be to make the DC lower for Sorcerers (since spells are easier to cast for them, rather than them being better at concentrating).
 

milo

First Post
The system looks pretty solid as it is, but I see this as making casters even more oriented to almost needing shorter battle days. At 1st level you will have a 4 or 5 for your concentration skill, and it will only go up by 1 most levels. At 20th you are looking at maybe a 30, with a very high casting stat. Before you cast any other spells for the day the DC for a 9th level spell is only a 19. If you cast 4 spells from each tier it goes up by 24, DC 43. Once you hit 6 spells per tier you are up to DC 55 for a 9th level spell. At that point it will be difficult to even succeed on a 1st level spell at DC 46(16 or better 25% chance of success). You will not have anywhere near as many spells per day as you do now since even a wizard will have 6 spells per day of each level with a casting stat of 30.
 

Sylrae

First Post
I agree with Milo. The system looks pretty good, except the number of spells you can cast in a day is far less.

Perhaps some sort of addition, like a pool mechanic, that casters can use for lowering the DC to cast a spell, or to ignore the number of castings already in effect? Maybe a pool of points that can be spent to stop a spell from adding to the 'number of spells cast' DC?

I'm not quite clear on how spell preparation works with this system though. Do you make all these rolls as you prep the spells (that would be when I'd have them do it for non-spontaneous casters, I think). If you don't how do you know how many of each spell you can prepare?
 

milo

First Post
1 point per caster level in a pool would help a lot. Use the same mechanics otherwise 1-3 takes one point from the pool, 4-6 takes 2 points, 7-9 takes away 3 points. You could give the sorcerer a bigger pool to draw from for more spells per day, that way there is still an advantage over the wizard. The only problem with this mechanic is it is close to spell points and I know that you are trying to avoid them.
Another method might be to give them a number of castings equal to the bonus spells from their casting stat modifier that don't increase the DC. It gives the caster 1-2 spells per level that they can cast without increasing the DC.
Edit
Another idea would be to give them an ability to lower the DC with 10 minutes of concentration 1 time per day. Lower the Total points used by the caster level of the character.
End Edit
Neither of these methods would get them to the same number, but I think they would work pretty well to get the caster closer to the same number of spells per day and they have more flexibility than spell slots give.
 
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