Flat-Footed

[Empirate]

Yeah, you can do those things, and what's the harm? AoOs can be made flat-footed if you have Combat Reflexes. Charge only works in a straight line, and partial charge only allows 1x base speed of movement. Sundering a weapon hanging on a belt is only a good idea if you like destroying the treasure this fight is getting you. Etc.

 

[Dandu]

(yeah..the character was pretty weak considering the fact that there are psionists in the party!).

But... but... spionics are teh brokenz!

 

[Jimlock]

But... but... spionics are teh brokenz!

My point exactly...don't know how it came out.

They 're so broken i can't even spell them right! (psioniSTs)

 

[Dandu]

My point exactly...don't know how it came out.

Player inadequacy?

 

[Jimlock]

Player inadequacy?

Ohhhh... poor me who thought you were a nice guy!

 

[Water Bob]

I would categorize that as "middle school." Old school is the basic set or, at least, 1st Edition.

Nah, he had it correct. He was talking about the Old School. You're tallking about the Ancient School.

 

[Dandu]

Ohhhh... poor me who thought you were a nice guy!

Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never assume that Dandu is a nice guy"!

 

[Water Bob]

More discussion with my player tonight....

He's got a good question. I've told him that, in 3rd edition, the term "flat-footed" does not refer to a state of complete unreadiness (as it is defined that way in 2nd edition), and "flat-footed" certainly does not refer to a state of complete readiness.

The term is used for a state somewhere in the middle, describing a state of "half-rediness". This I've taken from the various sources describing the flat-footed condition as not yet able to defend actively and such.

His reply is, "Fine. Then why don't the mechanics back up that state? If my character is surprised and completely unaware, he's flat-footed. If I am aware of my enemy, in this state of half-rediness by losing initiative--I'm still flat-footed."

He's equating being Surprised with losing nish.

I told him that, with surprise, being flat-footed is only half of it. You don't get an action at all.

With Surprise, you are flat-footed and don't get an action.

With Nish, you are just flat-footed (and still get to go later in the round if able).

But, he's disregarding that, thinking that the mechanical penalty to both Surprise and lost Initiative is the same: Flat-footed.

 

[JamesonCourage]

More discussion with my player tonight....

He's got a good question. I've told him that, in 3rd edition, the term "flat-footed" does not refer to a state of complete unreadiness (as it is defined that way in 2nd edition), and "flat-footed" certainly does not refer to a state of complete readiness.

The term is used for a state somewhere in the middle, describing a state of "half-rediness". This I've taken from the various sources describing the flat-footed condition as not yet able to defend actively and such.

His reply is, "Fine. Then why don't the mechanics back up that state? If my character is surprised and completely unaware, he's flat-footed. If I am aware of my enemy, in this state of half-rediness by losing initiative--I'm still flat-footed."

He's equating being Surprised with losing nish.

I told him that, with surprise, being flat-footed is only half of it. You don't get an action at all.

With Surprise, you are flat-footed and don't get an action.

With Nish, you are just flat-footed (and still get to go later in the round if able).

But, he's disregarding that, thinking that the mechanical penalty to both Surprise and lost Initiative is the same: Flat-footed.

I'm not going to go into my opinion or whether or not I agree with him again. However, have you brought up that you think this is a balance issue, and you don't want to hurt the balance of the game? And, if you have, what were his thoughts on it?

 

[Empirate]

You can only really show him what's the point here by having a bunch of enemies gain surprise AND win initiative. Then, in the next fight, have them win initiative, but not gain surprise. That way, he's bound to see the difference between a one-two-punch and a lucky first swing. If he still doesn't get it, you seem to have no alternative but telling him straight up: "you're entitled to your opinion about certain rules, but that doesn't mean we'll change them. Sorry, but you'll just have to deal with it. It's not as if it makes the game unplayable for you, right?"

I really can't come up with anything more constructive here anymore, sorry. If your player still insists and makes trouble over this minor issue, he just sucks.