Why is it a bad thing to optimise?

[prosfilaes]

My personal beef is with race optimisers. People who select a character race based solely on it's benefit to a specific class that they want to play. Without regard to really anything else. They may role play it to the hilt and it still may be fun but at first blush any race that isn't an iconic PC race (or race class combo) it grates on my nerves.

So dwarf wizards are right out? I have no experience in 4e, but in 3e, with a few exceptions, optimizers find their races in the PHB. Your complaint seems less about optimizers then people who play unusual races or race class combos.

 

[Kobold Boots]

IMO it's not optimizing that's bad. It's how certain people optimize. Sadly this method that is irksome is highly subjective. Sometimes broad sometimes narrow. While we may find someone that agrees with us it's a matter of personal taste.

I'll agree with this in one instance. If a group decides to uniformly optimize such that the entire group is very hard to take down while the individual characters are fallible, then I have no issue with it. It's the "I must break the game" solo optimizers that annoy me.

My personal beef is with race optimisers. People who select a character race based solely on it's benefit to a specific class that they want to play. Without regard to really anything else. They may role play it to the hilt and it still may be fun but at first blush any race that isn't an iconic PC race (or race class combo) it grates on my nerves.

That's fair, we all have our pet peeves. I think you've chosen a very frustrating one indeed as the books even point at preferred classes for races. Though if you're talking about people playing minotaurs and stuff like that.. yes I agree.

 

[Wiseblood]

[MENTION=40166]prosfilaes[/MENTION] yep dwarf wizards would ping on my radar.

[MENTION=92239]Kobold Boots[/MENTION] minotaur also has me in turmoil.

I must admit I've played a minotaur once. Not sure he was optimized he seemed like it but a crit had me bleeding out. (circa 2E severed leg)

My deaths tend to be memorable.

 

[Pentius]

My personal beef is with race optimisers. People who select a character race based solely on it's benefit to a specific class that they want to play. Without regard to really anything else. They may role play it to the hilt and it still may be fun but at first blush any race that isn't an iconic PC race (or race class combo) it grates on my nerves.

This one is a tad confusing to me, probably because I've gotten very used to the mechanically optimal choices generally also being the thematically iconic choices. So, the dwarf wizard would not(in any circumstance I can think of) be the Optimizer's choice, but would come up because someone thought it would be cool.

Also, I played a Minotaur once, too. But it was in 4e, and minotaurs in 4e aren't really noticeably over or underpowered.

 

[Hussar]

I'll agree with this in one instance. If a group decides to uniformly optimize such that the entire group is very hard to take down while the individual characters are fallible, then I have no issue with it. It's the "I must break the game" solo optimizers that annoy me.



That's fair, we all have our pet peeves. I think you've chosen a very frustrating one indeed as the books even point at preferred classes for races. Though if you're talking about people playing minotaurs and stuff like that.. yes I agree.

OY! I'm playing a minotaur right now. Why did I pick minotaur? Well, I'd been reading the Malazan books and there's this character who's just an incredibly kick ass warrior who was enslaved (Karsa Orlong for those who've read the books) and I started with this as a base. I wanted something big and strong that was enslaved in a mine.

Minotaur jumped out at me. Gave him a war pick, the very pickaxe he used to free himself with and went from there. Big, not terribly bright, fighter type.

Could have made him human, but, then, when we invaded the mouse kingdom, I wouldn't have eaten the king while he was still alive.

Jadrak One Horn - "Mouse king... Needs ketchup."

This was a trend that started a long time ago for me. It's been almost since the very early days of 1e since I played in a group that had all standard races.

 

[S'mon]

Re race/class - personally I always pick them based on what I want to play, not what's optimal; but I may get annoyed if something thematically appropriate seems mechanically very inferior; eg Tiefling Warlocks pre-Essentials AIR; Dwarf warrior types also were a bit marginal due to lack of STR bonus AIR. I can also get annoyed if a player picks a weird race purely for mechanical advantages, with no effort to roleplay it. As DM I'll only allow races I'm comfy with though.

Dwarf Wizards don't annoy me though; before Tolkien dwarves were associated with magic. I tend to think 'Alberich', so I like sinister Modsogner type dwarf wizards best. 4e encourages Dwarf Warlocks; I'm currently running Menace of the Icy Spire set in a dwarf infernal warlock's tower, I'm having some fun with that and tying it in to Goodman Game's Mountain King & his evil dwarves.

 

[Pentius]

Tiefling Infernal Warlocks were at an initial disadvantage, due to lacking the Con bonus, oddly, they excelled at Fey Pact. Whether Dwarves made marginal warrior types due to the lack of Strength was arguable, at best. Dwarven Weapon Training and the Second Wind as a minor action go a long, long way.

 

[pemerton]

Dwarven Weapon Training and the Second Wind as a minor action go a long, long way.

Oddly enough, the dwarf fighter in my game has DWT, wields a superior defensive halberd (a houseruled weapon, an ordinary halberd with brutal 2) and wears a cloak of the walking wounded.

 

[Pentius]

Oddly enough, the dwarf fighter in my game has DWT, wields a superior defensive halberd (a houseruled weapon, an ordinary halberd with brutal 2) and wears a cloak of the walking wounded.

DWT is good at any level, and brutal in low heroic. I'd be more surprised to hear of a weapon wielding Dwarf without it than one with it.

 

[Hussar]

S'mon - yeah, I'd agree with that. It does bug me when someone takes a race and then just plays it as a straight up human.

Funnily enough, I had one player some time ago play a kobold bard. Short, charismatic, liked to talk, the whole bit. After a bit of play I turned to her and asked why she didn't make the character a gnome - after all it seemed pretty gnomish to me.

Her reaction was one of pretty much blank surprise. It had never actually occured to her to make the character a gnome. Totally not on her radar. Had nothing to do with power gaming or anything else (it's a bloody kobold BARD! That's about as far from power gaming as you can get) it was just that gnomes didn't even register as an option.