WIR S1 Tomb of Horrors [SPOILERS!! SPOILERS EVERYWHERE!!]‏

[Joshua Randall]

It may be meta-gamey, but if you're in a dungeon and you reach a dead end, and you haven't fought the boss monster yet (or discovered the foozle), then you know you missed a secret door somewhere.

At that point all that remains is to figure out roughly where the secret door might be, and to roll or describe until you find it.

Were there any DMs who treated the 1-in-6 chance as an absolute, one-time chance with no retries allowed? Such that it would be possible for an unlucky party NEVER to find a secret door?

 

[Bullgrit]

There are 7 secret doors in Area 9. The module tells the DM that each door opens a different way. One door pulls down, one pivots, one slides up, etc. etc. etc.

It's interesting to note that most of the other secret doors in the Tomb have no description at all on how to open them.

Area 21: "The secret door to this place is a normal sort, so it can be found without undue difficulty." No info on how to open it.

Area 23: "...but the seemingly blank wall of solid stone behind the false door hides a secret door." No info on how to open it.

Area 17: (After dispel magic or remove curse are cast.) "...the secret door can be opened easily from either side." No info on how to open it. But it's "easy."

Area 13: "...a bit of examination will easily discover (4 in 6) a secret door. The character opening the door will..." No info on how to open it.

The area 9 secret doors require very specific methods to open. But all the methods are simply pushing or pulling or lifting on the door itself. No furnishings to manipulate.

Apparently the other secret doors don't require specific methods. But if pushing or pulling or lifting, (like area the 9 doors), is special, what is the generic/non-special methods?

Bullgrit

 

[shmoo2]

See, I don't think linear design is bad when you are using exploratory secret door rules.

I don't think the linear design and secret doors are necessarily a problem in Tomb of Horrors either.
I said they're usually bad, but here they create the unique Tomb of Horrors environment.

E.g. the secret doors force players to interact with everything, even the walls, in almost every room.
Also, for players used to standard secret doors in other adventures, these don't play to expectations - they are in pit traps, behind false doors, in the floor, or along walls but not at the end of a hall.

My experiences with how searching for secret doors was handled in that era is similar to Bullgrit's, though I recall DM's allowing rerolls when players described how they manipulated stuff.

 

[Bullgrit]

Also, notice that even in area 13, a die roll chance is given -- "...a bit of examination will easily discover (4 in 6) a secret door."

"A bit of examination" will reveal an "easily" discoverable secret door 4 in 6. Does this examination include rapping with a pole? Or does the pole give a 6 in 6 chance to discover the door?

This idea of using a pole to tap the walls kind of makes magic spells and items that detect secret doors pretty unnecessary, doesn't it? Essentially, every sword has the "detects secret doors" ability.

Bullgrit

 

[jonesy]

E.g. the secret doors force players to interact with everything, even the walls, in almost every room.

Which also plays for theme of the Tomb, since that is exactly what gets them in trouble.

 

[Bullgrit]

Edit -- Deleting this post because it was going more off on a tangent of secret doors in general.

Bullgrit

 

[Blackbrrd]

After reading this thread (all 34 pages of it), I have invited my players to a round of Tomb of Horrors. Now I am wondering how to do it.

I have played AD&D 2nd edition, DnD 3.0 and 3.5 and Dnd 4e. I do believe this module is best with the rules it was originally written for. In other words no skill checks, no thief that rolles to find traps, etc.

How do I get the things I need? Any hints would be most helpful!

Great job by all the people involved in this thread and I am eagerly waiting for the next room.

 

[Hussar]

Blackbrrd - wasn't this an AD&D module? So that means you still get thief checks. Even if it was OD&D, it was post introduction of the thief in the supplements IIRC.

 

[Blackbrrd]

My understanding is that it was written in 1975, and was first published in 1977. AD&D was published in 1978. From what I have understood, it's not the intention that a thief can search for the pit traps, etc...

 

[Stoat]

Area 27. The Portal of Scintillating Violet

Area 27 is a ten foot square room located in the center of the north wall of the Pillared Throne Room. The door to this chamber glows lilac, but flares with tinges of sickly green when touched.

The room on the other side is empty, except for eight sets of swords and shields. Each set consists of two swords crossed in front of a shield. There is another door on the north wall.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ToH_Gallery/ToHGraphic27.jpg

If anybody enters the room, two swords and one shield will animate and attack! Worse, every other time the threshold of the room is crossed, another of the eight sets of swords and shields animates! Worse still, each animated set is tougher than the one before. The first set attacks as a 1st level fighter. The eighth as an 8th level fighter.

IMO: Meh. A bunch of animated weapons attack, and each is more powerful than the last. It's not a deathtrap per se, but I guess it could wear down a persistent party. I see no clues or hints, but I don't really see a reason for them, either.

One question. I don't have an intuitive feel for 1E combat. How dangerous are these swords? Will they slaughter a 10th to 14th level party? Challenge it? Get wiped out by it?