Are adventures/modules more important than system?

[drunkenmonk]

I think adventures are pretty useless. Maybe to be gleamed for few ideas, but those can also be "borrowed" from movies, books, other systems, real life, and imagination.

Adventures need to be tailored to your particular players. What they want out of the game, and what they like in a game are different to every individual. Cookie cutter adventures are never as good as adventures tailored for that group of players.

Some people say they "have no time" to GM. I say that's hogwash. It doesn't take that long to plan an adventure.

Those that don't even have an hour a week, well they are either lying or just are not managing their tasks effectively. Who the heck can't find an hour a freaking week? (You need to quit gaming because you have bigger problems. You need to focus on you life, and maybe be just a player for a while.) I would ask how much time they surf the internet, watch tv, or play video games. I have a wife, two kids, a full time job, and several clubs I am in. I volunteer for my community and develop open source software on the weekends. I still manage to juggle everything effectively. I can go on weekly dates with my wife, go to all of my children's sporting or musical events, work at work, work at home, and work some more, and still have plenty of time to have the best green lawn on my block. It's about efficiency. Those that get the most done are often the same that have the most extra time.

Paragraph removed by admin. Don't insult people, folks. -- Piratecat

 

[steeldragons]

Well, they need an out-of-the-gate 1st level adventure that really blows players out of the water. And it needs to be more finely balanced than some previous attempts - we don't want the starting adventure to accidentally end in TPKS at a quarter of the tables.

We don't? Why not?! It's a harsh harsh world out there. Learn it early.

And for contrast, something extremely sandboxy. The Caves of Chaos playtest material might work for that.

I, personally, would HATE to see yet another incarnation of the Caves of Chaos. The KotB was a classic, make no mistake. But we could definitely do better than that in the new edition.

I'd also suggest not trying to release one big adventure path as your first series of modules - they'll want to show off higher level play too, so at least one mid- or high-level adventure, probably with pregen PCs just in case.

Agreed. But something that gets players off their feet to start out at 1st level is a necessity.

What about Keep on the Borderlands? That adventure nearly defines B/X, which is beloved to this day (although B2 was released before B/X, they were packaged together when B/X was released).

Which begs the question, should it be the aim of WotC to release an Iconic entry adventure with Next (assuming that an initial adventure is necessary)? Meaning, should they put equal effort into the adventure creation as system creation?

If that is the case, should the adventure be as sandbox/dungeon crawl-centric as B/X, or is it necessary to have a more developed plot in this age of gaming? Is it possible to create a either a sandbox or plot entry module that would not turn off a significant portion of players, or are both options needed?

I'm gonna say both...and I think both can be done in a single adventure/module.

The system is easily the most important part.

However, good published modules are important for bringing in and teaching new gamers.

Yes to the second part, no to the first. The system can be homebrewed for what you/your group wants. The second is going to be the "face" of the next D&D. It cannot mess up.

"More" important than the system? No.

Is a good starting adventure important? Yes, HELL yes.

Again, I concur on the latter, not the former.

Yes.

I am inclined to say...to the original question of whether or not the module/adventure is more important that than the"system" ... another Yes. Because you can "work" the system to make it what you want. The new adventure/module that illustrates the new system? That needs to be 199% GOLD! That's what you're getting the new players in with. It needs to be solid.

 

[jshaft37]

Drunken, we're all entitled to our own opinion, but there's no need for derogatory language such as liars, lazy, incompetent because someone chooses to enjoy a hobby in a different way than you do. Besides there are several excellent DMs who use adventures and other printed material within their campaign whether they work the module into the storyline, reskin or cherry pick ideas.

 

[dkyle]

@dkyle Yeah, it's the same way rules are required to play a game. The adventure modules are the structured content to the rules structured play.

Structured rules are far more essential to playing the game than "structured content". The rules are specifically designed to support and facilitate DM-generated content. Homebrewing new game rules is a fundamentally different task. It's the difference between using a word processor to write a letter, and writing a word processor.

Your statement that modules are required to play the game is simply absurd.

 

[Hassassin]

More important? No. As important? Maybe.

If 5e is a great system, I may use it to run Paizo's adventures and my own.

If 5e adventures are great, but the system isn't, I may use 3.5 or PF to run them.

From the POV of WOTC it comes down to which nets them more money: me buying the core books vs. me buying several of their adventures. I'm not really interested in splat books.

 

[Frostmarrow]

One interesting thing is how Sunless Citadel occasionally is mentioned as a classic. SC is a pretty decent adventure but nothing out of the ordinary. However, since SC was the first adventure in the 3E line it gets a mention anyway. I think people wish SC was great even though it wasn't (please feel free to disagree).

Death in Freeport on the other hand was great. Not only was it a good adventure in an interesting (if derived) setting it was also followed by two more adventures of great quality.

This goes to show that a new edition needs a new adventure path and that such an adventure path need to be great. I find it strange WoTC have such problems creating a great starter adventure when the DDI is shockful of adventures from fine writers.

I hope WoTC will get rid of the old idea that a D&D adventure must follow the pattern: Village troubled by nearby dungeon, and aim for something more exciting. Such as: Village full of clues lead to various dundgeons in the vicinity, where many but not all form a pattern in the end.

 

[grimslade]

I don't think of Sunless Citadel as a classic adventure. Meepo is really the only thing that stood out about it. Freeport was great. The first 3e mod I played was Necromancer games The Wizards Amulet and the Crucible of Freya. It resulted in a TPK and there was much rejoicing. (Low level characters and DM critting with great axes is never a good mix.)
The thing that these adventures give is a touchstone for the community. Meepo the Kobold is a mascot, an icon, for early 3E. Black Razor, Whelm and Wave are touchstones for 1E.
You may have never set foot into the Tomb of Horrors, but you shudder to think at the myriad of deaths that await there.
Adventures are the meme producers for D&D. 'I used to be an adventurer until I took an arrow to the knee' is fantastic. It references a game easily without the person ever having played Skyrim. Much more so than referencing mechanics.

 

[Ratskinner]

important how?

I'm having trouble imagining a situation where it matter more than the core system. I figure for players, GMs, and for WOTC sales, having a solid core and great rules-modules is very important to get people on board. Great adventure-modules are wonderful, but many DMs don't use them, so their relative importance among players and the like is diminished numerically, if not qualitatively for their users. (Personally, I rarely use modules "as is", but I am happy to scarf maps, villains, plots, etc.) So I can't think that the adventures will be more important than the system as a whole, although they may be more important than a few of the more rare rules-modules.

On the other hand, I can think of one big exception. If they produce an introductory "red box" (with the core/basic rules up to a few levels, a basic DMs guide, a tiny monster set, and an adventure a la B2) then that adventure had better be awesomeness incarnate. Many new/young players will see that as part and parcel of the game, and if that one is lousy, then they'll be less likely to continue on in the hobby. Additionally, a lot of lapsed old-timers might pick up that box to "test drive" 5e without the expense of the whole set. (Pure speculation on my part.)

 

[Incenjucar]

I don't use canned adventures unless forced (Encounters, etc.), so it doesn't matter how many or how good, I have no use for adventures or modules. A system that relies on that sort of support, rather than good rules, is going to be treated as nice art to look at at the book store while looking at games I may actually purchase, and nothing more.

 

[Dausuul]

Once the playtest has run for a couple months and the rules structure is firming up, WotC should run an Intro Adventure Contest. Playtesters create and submit 1st-level adventures, and WotC staff reviews them and picks the top three or so to kick off 5E's official release. The winners get standard freelance pay and a place on the short list for when WotC needs more adventure material, with the possibility of being hired full-time.