L&L 5/21 - Hit Points, Our Old Friend

[Ratskinner]

I do not like rolling HD. It does little more than allow random generation to gimp an otherwise good design. Where's the benefit to a fighter with 1 hp? Even with a good con thats oh...3, 4?

While I do feel that 4e started off characters too high, I feel that a random HD+con at lvl1 is far too low.

I suspect (from a hodgepodge of things from various places) that we will see that you get max hp whenever you level up. The randomized recovery of HD during play will act to make it interesting. This would also fit with the idea that games wishing to start with competent/heroic PCs a la 4e would start at level 3 or so, rather than level 1.

I'm not sure how Con or Con bonus fit into the scheme (if at all.)

 

[Dausuul]

This feels very much like a luke warm healing surge mechanic to me.

That's exactly what it is. IMO, it's their attempt to... not so much "please everybody" as "avoid upsetting anyone too badly."

Like it or not, 4E happened. D&DN must appeal to 4E fans as well as those of earlier editions, and 4E fans have good and valid reasons for liking the healing surge mechanic. Any game that doesn't have some form of nonmagical hit point recovery is going to be a nonstarter for a lot of 4E players. At the same time, a game that lacks the possibility of long-term injury, or that makes the fiction of hit points messier than it already was, is going to be equally unappealing to players of 3E and Pathfinder.

So, we get this. It performs the mechanical function of healing surges, but tries to address the problems that made healing surges so disliked amid the 3E/PF fanbase. Judging by the reactions in this thread, nobody is thrilled about it, but most people are cautiously okay with it--I don't see many people saying "This is a dealbreaker." I'd say that means the designers got it right, though we still have to see how it plays out in practice.

 

[triqui]

I... didn't see any part of healing surges in there at all?

Let's say that 10th level dwarven fighter has 100 hp (30 hp was a glancing blow)... 10d10... plus 40-50 from somewhere (Con, theme, whatever). Sounds like he can naturally heal 10d10 per day.

If you're a 10th level elf fighter with 50 hp (you don't have that plus 40-50 the dwarf did)... you roll up to 10d10 sounds like.

Doesn't seem _that_ different from the 1-4 x level of 3e, just more rolling, and little easier. It certainly shies away from the 4e 1/4 of your hp, less rolling for healing system.

A important difference is when two characters are from different classes. A dwarf fighter will heal 10d10 (or whatever) with the new system, while an elven wizard will heal 10d6. In 1-3e, the wizard will heal faster, because he was weaker. That did not make a lot of sense. The new system is better in my opinion.

Let's see how it works in real gaming, but sounds as an improvement to both 3e style and 4e healing surges in my opinion.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

What I hope to see is:

HP are between half max and max (I'll call it Winded): You can spend a turn catchign your breath to recover a Hit Die worth of Hit Points.

HP are at half or less, but still positive (I'll call it Wounded): You can treat & bandage your wounds with a 10 minute rest to recover a Hit Die worth of Hit Points. You may spend an additional 10 minutes if you are still Wounded to treat & bandage your wounds further.

HP are at or below zero (Dying or Unconscious): Only magical healing can restore your hit points in the short term and automatically changes your condition from Dying to Unconscious. Mundane healing must be used to first stabilize your condition from Dying to Unconscious. 12 hours of rest while attended or 24 hours of rest unattended allows you to regain one Hit Die worth of Hit Points. You may spend additional 12 or 24 hours rests to recover further if you are still Unconscious.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That's exactly what it is. IMO, it's their attempt to... not so much "please everybody" as "avoid upsetting anyone too badly."

Like it or not, 4E happened. D&DN must appeal to 4E fans as well as those of earlier editions, and 4E fans have good and valid reasons for liking the healing surge mechanic. Any game that doesn't have some form of nonmagical hit point recovery is going to be a nonstarter for a lot of 4E players. At the same time, a game that lacks the possibility of long-term injury, or that makes the fiction of hit points messier than it already was, is going to be equally unappealing to players of 3E and Pathfinder.

So, we get this. It performs the mechanical function of healing surges, but tries to address the problems that made healing surges so disliked amid the 3E/PF fanbase. Judging by the reactions in this thread, nobody is thrilled about it, but most people are cautiously okay with it--I don't see many people saying "This is a dealbreaker." I'd say that means the designers got it right, though we still have to see how it plays out in practice.

Even though my initial response is "not thrilled" i do think you are right: this doesn't seem to be a dealbreaker for most people (though that will still be dependant on the specifics).

 

[Tovec]

As of right now, I'm out. Not buying in and drinking the cool-aid. I'll try the playtest and see if this changes but I certainly DO NOT LIKE what I read on that page.

 

[avin]

As of right now, I'm out. Not buying in and drinking the cool-aid. I'll try the playtest and see if this changes but I certainly DO NOT LIKE what I read on that page.

What part you dislike?

I see nothing that I can't easily houserule.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

In theory, I like healing surges/second wind. I liked the idea of nonmagical healing. I actually used second wind/bloodied in a 3.5 game long ago (if you were below 1/2 hp, you got 2 hp/hd back during combat as a standard action 1/day) and it worked great.

My big complaint with 4e's surges were the fact that magical healing used them too. A paladin's lay on hands, a cleric's healing word, a potion of healing, and a second wind ALL used a healing surge, but did very different things with them. Divorcing them from magical healing makes potions better than "ripoff second winds" and could even potentially be removed for a really gritty game.

 

[Szatany]

I don't get why is unconsciousness tied to HP? People can be unconscious and healthy, and they can be dying and lucid.
I know all (most?) older editions have this rule, but it never made sense to me.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Some thoughts:

I expect the default rules to be fixed hp/level with option to roll your HD. Probably modified by CON? 10 hp fighter sounds like 6 (fixed value of d10 HD) + 4 (14 CON mod)?

Hit Die recovery rates vary depending on preferred "grittiness":

Gritty game: recover 1 HD/extended rest
Default game: recovery half level (round up) HD/extended rest
Action hero game: recover all HD/extended rest


Healing magic is hopefully keyed to your HD instead of flat value based on the spell:
cure wounds spell: heals 1 HD/spell level slot (plus some modifier?) damage

heal (or true heal or something) spell: restore all expended HD and heal to full hp less one HD.


Non magical healing:
Warlord's insping word: target expends [some number] of HD and heals hp as if rolled max on the die. [some number] maybe a choice for the warlord and/or the target? A character may be the recipient of inspring word 1/day?


Second Wind (self healing in combatr) options:
1/encounter spend and roll 1 HD to recover hp
1/day spend and roll any number of HD to recover hp