D&D 5E Rolling for All Spells

[Hussar]

Not really:

"Similarly, because the words and gestures must be repeated exactly, spells cannot be cast while performing any other action (such as walking or fighting)." - B15.

"If the caster loses initiative and takes damage or fails a saving throw, the spell is interrupted and lost." - X11.

I'd imagine that the expert rule is a clarification on the basic rule that you can't cast spells while fighting.

Ahh, see, now I was just reading from the Basic book, not the Expert. Thanks for that.

Note, you can still cast while fighting. If you win initiative, it's no problem. If you lose initiative but don't take any damage, you're still ok. It's only if you get hit before your spell goes off.

 

[Weather Report]

Ahh, see, now I was just reading from the Basic book, not the Expert. Thanks for that.

Note, you can still cast while fighting. If you win initiative, it's no problem. If you lose initiative but don't take any damage, you're still ok. It's only if you get hit before your spell goes off.

And you roll Initiative every round, right?

 

[Hussar]

Yes. That's right. Roll initiative every round. So, it is a bit of a gamble. But, not a terribly huge one really. Remember, you're in a group of six or eight, plus mooks, so, having a meat shield in front of you isn't all that difficult.

 

[Sadrik]

A binary result isn't more random because there are more possible numbers that can be rolled. If I roll d100 and succeed on a 51 or more, it's no more swingy than flipping a coin.

The problem an opposed roll would raise is that you would need a new rule for what happens when you get a tie.

This is true, no matter the odds, you have a possibility of two outcomes: pass or fail (and a third outcome tie with opposed rolls). Although 3e put in the fail by 5 or more to generate a 3rd outcome. Rather than making no progress, you fall for instance. It is related but not germane to the discussion of odds.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Actually it is correct, if one player sets the DC to 1 and the other player rolls a 20 that is a +19 result. If the player sets the DC to 20 and the other player rolls a 1 that is a -19 result. That is a range -19 to -1 and 0 and +1 to +19 for a total of 39 possible results. This is as opposed to a single d20 which only has 20 possible results and which opposes a single possibility, the DC.

Opposed rolls are crap, if a d10 was used for the opposed rolls it could fix it somewhat. But then it does not feel like a d20 system. That would be the only way I could get behind an opposed roll mechanic in d20, it would bring the extreme swingyness into the realm of the d20.

An opposed d20 roll with 50% tiebreaker(something like Attacker wins if tieing roll was even) has the same probability of success (50%) as a d20 roll with a target number of 11 or higher. The only difference is the total number of possible combinations (400 vs 20).

 

[Sadrik]

Correct. So 50%, but has a huge variance. The more you move away from the 50% mark the more extreme the numbers get. Think very steep bell curve. I think the opposed 1d10 rolls might actually work if the game has to have them in the game. The flatter math exposes the problems with opposed d20 rolls even more. Like I have said a million times hopefully they are removed (or move to opposed d10s).

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

2d20l(d20-d20 is actually a shifted version of that curve) is actually a fairly shallow bell curve 2d10 on the other hand is a steeper bell curve. Also flat bonuses influence opposed d20 rolls(with 50% tiebreaker) the exact same way as they would a d20 + bonuses vs a Target number of 11+ with bonuses. As mentioned before a TN of 11 is the exact same as if the opposing D20 always rolled 10 and won ties.

 

[Sadrik]

Also flat bonuses influence opposed d20 rolls(with 50% tiebreaker) the exact same way as they would a d20 + bonuses vs a Target number of 11+ with bonuses. As mentioned before a TN of 11 is the exact same as if the opposing D20 always rolled 10 and won ties.

I agree it is the same with a TN of 11 the problem is that the TN is 1 to 20. It is not just the same.

And you were right that 2d10 shows more curve than 1d20-1d20. But that is like discussing apples and oranges, the discussion is about contests not about rolling two dice and adding them together. 39 potential results on a low curve. Vs. 20 possible results on a flat curve. I like some randomness in the game but an unpredictable d39 is not it.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

I agree it is the same with a TN of 11 the problem is that the TN is 1 to 20. It is not just the same.

Wrong. Add every number on a d20 together and then divide by 20. You get one number the average of all rolls on a d20: 10.5. A TN of d20 is 10.5 on average. So it is almost exactly the same as a TN of 11.

And you were right that 2d10 shows more curve than 1d20-1d20. But that is like discussing apples and oranges, the discussion is about contests not about rolling two dice and adding them together. 39 potential results on a low curve. Vs. 20 possible results on a flat curve. I like some randomness in the game but an unpredictable d39 is not it.

I'm guessing you don't understand statistics and how rolling dice works because d20-d20 does not work like a d39.

There are 400 possible combinations in a d20-d20 roll. In 190 out of 400 (47.5%) combination the first d20 comes out on top. In another 190 (47.5%) combinations the second comes out on top. The remaining 20 (5%) combinations are ties.

 

[Sadrik]

Wrong. Add every number on a d20 together and then divide by 20. You get one number the average of all rolls on a d20: 10.5. A TN of d20 is 10.5 on average. So it is almost exactly the same as a TN of 11.



I'm guessing you don't understand statistics and how rolling dice works because d20-d20 does not work like a d39.

There are 400 possible combinations in a d20-d20 roll. In 190 out of 400 (47.5%) combination the first d20 comes out on top. In another 190 (47.5%) combinations the second comes out on top. The remaining 20 (5%) combinations are ties.

First of all we are talking two things. If you are talking about the average over the span then yes the average roll is 10.5 on a d20 but what is the average on a single instance? There is not one. It is equally able to come up any number on the die. So it is helpful to look at the instance rather than the span. Contests are usually only a few rolls and not 20 or more which it would take to get to the 10.5 number.

As to the d39 I am aware it does not work like a d39 but it is a useful tool to show the randomness. 400 possibilities split into 39 potential roll totals (-19 to +19). I don't dispute your statistics my beef with contests is their randomness. Are you claiming they are more random, less random, or are the same random? I think your argument is that they are the same. Is that right?