D&D 5E [Warlords] Should D&D be tied to D&D Worlds?

[Starfox]

At any rate, the need for a specific warlord class seems to be something we can move past...

The tactic to move the discussion into la-la-land just to say that in la-la-land we don't need warlords... applies in la-la-land and nowhere else.

* Returns to discussing the warlord.

 

[urLordy]

The tactic to move the discussion into la-la-land just to say that in la-la-land we don't need warlords... applies in la-la-land and nowhere else.

Speaking of la-la-land...
One day, in a looks-obsessed future, people will be playing D&D Ultimate v80, and some will say they are inspired by successful beautiful characters in stories and they will want a Beauty class. They will be disconcerted that there are only rules for magical beauty, and will point to characters like Galadriel in Tolkein as an example of natural beauty that necessitates a whole class. So then there will be one Beauty in the party, and suddenly everyone else is just a Beast, and no matter what the Beasts do, the Beauty will always be the most beautiful and loved, just because.

Then in D&D Ultimate v81, the designers worry that the system has overcompensated for the effects of beauty on success and have arbitrarily siloed beauty in a way that offends or perplexes, and they archive the Beauty class, and the official newsfeeds claim there will be a Comeliness Module that will include beauty and beauty-related products, and new threads pop up complaining that their beauty needs have been overlooked.

* Returns to discussing the warlord.

Oh ok.

 

[Starfox]

I doubt many people would find this palatable. Even leaving aside the "hit points as physical damage" argument, the idea that they're more than that doesn't discriminate precisely what they are, nor the percentages of such a mixture. If hit points are a combination of luck, stamina, divine providence, physical fortitude, "rolling with the blows," and morale, are we going to say that curing morale is worth 16.67% of a character's hit points? Or some other (arbitrary) percentage?

If hit points are an equal mix of luck, stamina, divine providence, physical damage, roll with blows, and morale... I think a warlord should be able to restore 4/6th of it (all but divine providence and physical damage). My first estimate of 50% seems a fair approximation.

So we're back to square 1, and the question remains: what is hit points?

What Meals says about hit points in Next seems to be more of an argument than a definition.

 

[Starfox]

Speaking of la-la-land...
One day, in a looks-obsessed future, people will be playing D&D Ultimate v80, and some will say they are inspired by successful beautiful characters in stories and they will want a Beauty class.

Obviously, Beauty cannot be a class. It is as much a no go as having a Magical Girl class. Since everybody will be a Beauty (or in previous editions, a magical girl) there will be no distinction between different characters. No we need a Fighting Beauty, and Arcane Beauty and a Blessed Beauty class. All slightly different from their "ugly" versions, of course. Not that anyone has played an "ugly" character since the nerf in Players Handbook #69.

Yeah, we may get there... But we're not there yet.

PS: This is not entirely a fantasy. There was a d20 supplement for playing Sailor Moon type games, which features a Magical Girl class, which every main character in a series like Sailor Moon would naturally play. Thus everybody in such a game would be the same class, Magic Girl. Not a good use of a class system.

PPS: Urlordry has IMed me that he edited his post after I replied to it. To keep the debate rational, I have to edit my reply to... <gets hit by nerf bat and ducks out>

 

[urLordy]

Obviously, Beauty cannot be a class. It is as much a no go as having a Magical Girl class.

Oh, there were huge arguments in those days that Magical Girl spent years and years of training in Magical College, that's why it was a legit class. You had to multiclass as Magical Beauty if you wanted to be born beautiful and also attend Magical College.

Except, and totally reasonably, the class was changed to Magical Person.

P.S. (after reading Starfox's edits) I had no idea Magical Girl was a Sailor Moon supplement. I thought it was a reference to the Magic-User class.

 

[Warbringer]

"It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to sustain physical damage takes place. It is preposterous to state such an assumption..."


Not my quote.

1. Hit points are not just meat (despite current designer flavor statements)
2. If they are not just meat there needs to be a non-meat recovery

4e was the first implementation of the game that had this as a core concept to he game, with a pool of hit points and a pool of recovery. What it also added was mechanical tools for accessing the latter to replenish the former.

5e does have mechanical similarities, though the recovery pool is much smaller. I think a class that allows access to this recovery pool without directly affecting hit points themselves is the design space the Warlord can slip into (much like 4e)

Can this be a feat, sure, but D&D is a class based game with locked feats ("features") at given levels. The solution therefore needs to be a class based solution, though I'm willing for it to be a sub-class solution (possibly the non-divine Paladin), and the simple acknowledgment it's a valid design space request.

 

[Alzrius]

If hit points are an equal mix of luck, stamina, divine providence, physical damage, roll with blows, and morale... I think a warlord should be able to restore 4/6th of it (all but divine providence and physical damage). My first estimate of 50% seems a fair approximation.

That doesn't match with what you said previously though, where warlord healing would only be equal to morale (this also assumes that these elements exist in equal proportion, which is still a presumption, though admittedly an understandable one).

There was a d20 supplement for playing Sailor Moon type games, which features a Magical Girl class, which every main character in a series like Sailor Moon would naturally play. Thus everybody in such a game would be the same class, Magic Girl. Not a good use of a class system.

Now I'm curious, what supplement was this? Surely you don't mean BESM d20?

 

[I'm A Banana]

The tactic to move the discussion into la-la-land just to say that in la-la-land we don't need warlords... applies in la-la-land and nowhere else.

* Returns to discussing the warlord.

It's just a question about how likely la-la-land is to exist at that point. If the idea of a rules module in 5e that could include rules that remove the need for magical healing is fundamentally unbelievable to you, just come with me.

[video=youtube;RZ-uV72pQKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RZ-uV72pQKI[/video]

I see pointers at such a module all over previous editions, and what they've said in the material for 5e, too (L&L columns, for one). Living there, you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.

 

[Starfox]

Now I'm curious, what supplement was this? Surely you don't mean BESM d20?

I never owned it, and cannot recall the name - only got a scalding review of it from a friend who did own it. It was not BESM, it was it's own product, very early in the d20 splurge. Probably passed under most people's radar.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Obviously, Beauty cannot be a class. It is as much a no go as having a Magical Girl class.<gets hit by nerf bat and ducks out>

Magical Girls are basically a subset of magic users. Each player could simply play a different magic class like sorcerer, druid, wizard, etc.