An Open Letter to Fantasy Flight and Cubicle 7 -- Cut the "Foreplay" and Give Us the Good Stuff

[Crothian]

No one needs superpowers to be cool, nor do you need superpowers to be the ultimate evil. Epic adventures to wretched hives of scum and villainy do not require the Force, or light sabers, to be epic.

So for in this thread no one has disagreed with that statement. You aren't the only one exaggerating the claims though Morrus keeps comparing Jedi to Drizzt assuming that anyone who plays a Jedi would play it like some over the top character. If that is the only way that Jedi get played in your games I can understand the concern and I would say the problem just might be the players and not the Jedi Concept.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm with Morrus. I find Star Wars to be better without Jedi.

No one needs superpowers to be cool, nor do you need superpowers to be the ultimate evil. Epic adventures to wretched hives of scum and villainy do not require the Force, or light sabers, to be epic.

And that's fine. That should be YOUR prerogative. If you want to run a Star Wars game as hard Sci-fi with no mystical underpinnings, be my guest. However, the OPTION to run using Jedi is a very core principle to the Star Wars universe, so it should be included in the core rules offering of a Star Wars RPG...

Let me put it another way...

"Lord of the Rings is about the success of mankind over evil. As such, we are not including rules for Elves, Dwarves, or Hobbits in the core book. You will need to buy the Rivendell, Mines of Moria, & Shire sourcebooks to play them."

"The success of Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures has shown you don't need time travel to be a successful Doctor Who spinoff, so we have opted to put Timelords/Tardises/Time travel in the Lords of Gallifrey sourcebook."

"Magic is a complex and personal part of D&D, so we are not including any spellcasters in the Player's Handbook. You can roll up Fighters, Rogues, Warlords, Monks, Barbarians and Rangers in the core book, and then get Tome of Magic to get access to Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks and Swordmages and Defenders of the Faith for Clerics, Paladins, Druids, Crusaders, and Avengers."

"Since the art of Decking is a complex element of Shadowrun, we've removed Deckers from the core rules. Those interested in this class should buy the new Deckers sourcebook coming out next year."

 

[Crothian]

Really, Chris? Jedi is all you got from Star Wars? That's it?

No and that isn't even close to what I am saying. Star Wars has a lot of other elements but those things are common in other Space Opera books, TV Shows, and movies. George Lucas borrowed ideas from a lot of different places with Jedi being his most original idea. Remove the Jedi from Star Wars and you get typical Space Opera setting which can be still awesome like Firefly is awesome. The Jedi idea is what really sets it apart. I don't see people making a religion based off of Han Solo.

 

[Morrus]

Remove the Jedi from Star Wars and you get typical Space Opera setting which can be still awesome like Firefly is awesome. The Jedi idea is what really sets it apart.

Really, Chris? Jedi is all you got from Star Wars? That's it?

/dejavu

 

[Remathilis]

Really, Chris? Jedi is all you got from Star Wars? That's it?

/dejavu

Well, lets see...

I really liked the whole "small group of rebels vs. the Empire" thing. I loved the space battles between the X-Wings and TIE fighters, the menace of the Death Star, the imperial politics of the Moffs, and the legions of soulless Storm Troopers ready to destroy the rebellion.

However, it appears I can't play that game with EotE, since Star Wars isn't about the Rebellion or the Empire.

 

[Crothian]

Really, Chris? Jedi is all you got from Star Wars? That's it?

/dejavu

If you feel that there are other elements of Star Wars that separate it from Space Opera then please answer my question and point them out. Asking the same question over and over again clearly isn't working.

 

[Morrus]

If you feel that there are other elements of Star Wars that separate it from Space Opera then please answer my question and point them out. Asking the same question over and over again clearly isn't working.

I have, in earlier posts. Hutts, smugglers, bounty hunters, rancor monsters, stormtroopers, clones, podracers, speeder bikes, etc. A vivid and colourful setting full of adventure. All wonderful stuff!

The fact that you asked that question makes me sad. Do you honestly need me to point out the gorgeous, rich tapestry there that isn't Jedi? Is it really all just typical space opera for you without Jedi? The Jedi, for me, are the weakest part; the boring Drizzt part. The easy ninja part.

(Other than the fact that Star Wars helped to define space opera).

I assure you that Drizzt isn't the unique thing about Star Wars!

 

[alien270]

At the risk of making a very generalized statement, I just realized how funny it is that so many Star Wars fans are eager to disown the prequels, and yet get so upset about the exclusion of full-on Jedi Knights from a game about the OT.

Seriously, the Force Sensitive Exile describes every single non-Sith Force user in the OT. Not sure how many of the "I want Jedi!" crowd have actually looked through or played the game, but the Force Sensitive Exile can do a LOT. It costs a ton of XP, but anything except Force Lightning is doable with the existing powers. Heck, a lot of the prequel/EU stuff can be done, too. The biggest handicap that the FSE has is the lack of a Lightsaber skill, as well as the prohibitive cost of lightsabers. The lightsaber stats are still there, though, and the book flat out says that GMs can opt to giving PCs a Lightsaber skill.

Looking at the lightsaber battles in the OT, though, I'm not convinced that Luke even HAD training. Obi-Wan died before he could teach him to be anything more than "good against remotes." Yoda didn't even have a lightsaber, so sparring was out of the question. Sure, Luke's growing connection with the Force made him more effective than any old schmuck with a lightsaber, but in EotE mechanical terms that's probably the result of the the "combat-reflexes" chain of upgrades to the Sense power, and perhaps the Superior Reflexes and/or Sixth Sense Talents.

You could totally build Luke with EotE, and even what we saw of Obi-Wan from the OT. Can you really fault FFG for ignoring the prequels as much as most fans do?

 

[TrippyHippy]

And that's fine. That should be YOUR prerogative. If you want to run a Star Wars game as hard Sci-fi with no mystical underpinnings, be my guest. However, the OPTION to run using Jedi is a very core principle to the Star Wars universe, so it should be included in the core rules offering of a Star Wars RPG...

...except, nobody has argued this at all. Since when did mystical underpinnings equate to superpowers? In any case, The Edge of Empire has an entire chapter about the Force, and you can play Force sensitive characters. The game is not hard sci-fi in any shape or form.

It seems hard to explain to people brought up on the Prequel movies, but it's just presenting the setting with the same tone and thematic integrity that the original Trilogy had - with Jedi being on the verge of extinction. It's an important aspect of the setting as it shows the growth of characters like Hans Solo moving beyond their initial cynicism ("there's no mystical Force that controls my destiny") into something a little more spiritual ("Luke...may the Force be with you").

Having super-powered Jedi bouncing all over the show just robs the setting of it's mysticism.

 

[Morrus]

Looking at the lightsaber battles in the OT, though, I'm not convinced that Luke even HAD training.

I get what you're saying - they moved to acrobatic choreography in the prequels, which was different to the style in the OT.

For me, though - the RotJ fight between Luke and Vader is far more vivid than any other in the six movies. When it comes down to it, good moviemaking isn't about acrobatics. That fight has something else to it.