Racism, sexism, homophobia, jerkism

[Dwimmerlied]

Not sure if it's relevant, but I (white male) too do this now and then, especially at night, regardless of the race of the woman. And this is Sweden, a country that until recently had no real racial issues. It's more of a gender and general insecurity issue. If I get the impression someone is uncomfortable, I try to give them space.

But if you slow down while walking behind a woman at night, will it seem like you're stalking her?

 

[jonesy]

But if you slow down while walking behind a woman at night, will it seem like you're stalking her?

Not sure why there's a smiley face there. It's a lose-lose situation as far as impressions go every which way. It depends on the people involved and how they feel about the situation. Too many combinations of personal chemistry to know what the 'correct' way of handling it is. Every single action you migh make to rectify the situation could be seen as something else.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Not sure why there's a smiley face there. It's a lose-lose situation as far as impressions go every which way. It depends on the people involved and how they feel about the situation. Too many combinations of personal chemistry to know what the 'correct' way of handling it is. Every single action you migh make to rectify the situation could be seen as something else.

Absolutely. The smiley face is to aknowledge the absurdity of it. Overanalysis can be funny.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Also, it reminded me of this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2182

I've been caught out before. On my way home from uni at night, walking behind some girl. Do I walk faster? Or slower?? Man, I'm right behind her. If I walk slower, it'll appear I'm stalking her. OK. Faster it is... Oh no! She's walking faster now! SHE THINKS IM A HOMICIDAL MANIAC! Perhaps I should take a different route home? Or whistle inconspicuously. Yeah, that'll be disarming!

Yep, sometimes you gotta laugh

I agree with the sentiment that small community plays a big part in combatting the –isms, and would go one step smaller. We need to be constantly vigilant of our own motives. If you are already thinking like this, you are probably are more part of the solution than the problem, but it is particularly useful because it tends to encourage empathy. If I acknowledge I’m just a monkey in a clever suit, I’ll recognise foibles in others and be more inclined to believe that jerks can be reached. I agree with Starfox that forcefulness won’t work, but I am honestly repeatedly astonished to find how often persistence, acceptance and patience work so profoundly and effectively time and time again. Sometimes people don't want to be challenged because of personal stakes. If you can take away as many of those as possible, it makes persuasion far easier.

 

[Umbran]

*Cross the street* and walk faster, so she can see you, and there is distance.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Ahhh the intricacies of ettiquette in the age of aquarius

 

[jonesy]

Ahhh the intricacies of ettiquette in the age of aquarius

Funny thing about astrologers: none of them agree on any of their rules:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Aquarius

 

[Janx]

The other thing, I observed an exchange on another board where some of the posters said that the only real racism left in the US was from the KKK. It's a trend that I've noticed that comes out of the mouth of a fair amount of white/non-black people. Which by default means that any other type of ill treatment because of our skin color ISNT because of skin color and is because we either have really thin skins and/or imagining it. OR even better we somehow BENEFIT from calling out (presumed) racist treatment or behavior. It's pretty much a variation on shaming tactics used on women when they speak out about sexism.

I might wonder if some of this perception (on the white people's part) is that they aren't seeing the racisim, so they don't think it's happening.

In the old days, it was pretty obvious. You got whipped, we didn't. Then you had your crappy drinking fountain, we had our nice one. And a bunch of us white people thought that was wrong.

Stuff changed. People got shot. People got elected.

but in some places, LA, NYC, apparently it's still a racist racehole. Sorry. We didn't know that (well, it keeps coming back in the news so we should).

In other places, it's not as bad. When Quannel X goes on a rant about racist police in Houston singling out a black suspect, he lacks credibility because over half of the police force isn't white. Which means in all likelyhood over half of all black suspects arrested are probably arrested by non-white cops assuming a random distribution of who's going to arrest somebody on a given day.

No doubt there's some racist jerks mixed in there, but it's likely harder to pull off a racism scam when your peers are looking out for that stuff.

In Houston, and probably other places, the racial distribution virtually mirrors the economic distribution. So while we all really know that it's poor people who commit the most crimes, since that happens to be mostly non-white people, the terminology used is color based instead of money based.

Teachers interviewing at schools get told the % white/non-white levels as a recruitment data-point. Because the bad schools are fed by apartment housing which are low rent which are poor people, which are predominantly non-white. Making it easier to describe by color which is visually obvious in the halls, than by census data. Katy ISD is really nice. Spring ISD is going downhill (the influx of Katrina evacuees and the resulting crime rate increase at those schools being why my wife quite working there). Spring High was just in the news for a murder-by-knife incident last week.

In listening to my teacher friends talk, as an outsider, I suppose that can sound a little bit racist. I don't think they hate black people. But they aren't entirely impressed by the population sample's behavior.

I reckon there's a case to be made that people talking about the problem at the schools should be using economic terms, instead of racial terms. It's definitely not a good thing to say "the problem with Spring ISD is all the black kids." Luckily, I don't literally hear that. But I sense people are dancing around saying that.

Likewise, that same demographic that is blamed for the trouble, has evolved a culture of "anti-whitism." If a black kid shows up using proper grammar, not dressing like a gangster, he's picked on for "acting white." Freakonomics has a section about this, and mentions some famous basketball star exprienced this (kareem abdul jabar if I recall). I don't think this is a healthy culture. I can certainly see where black folks haven't gotten a good deal by some white folk. But that disrespects that some chunk of us white folk who thought so highly of blacks' equality that we define the Civil War as being about helping them.

So for as many white folk that are really racist (as in would take steps to hinder/harm a non-white person), there's as many who aren't.

I reckon that we may not always realize that not everything's solved, because it's not as obvious as it was. And we might not realize that how we say things isn't helping, but that doesn't mean an actual intent to harm. Which is where true racism is.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I might wonder if some of this perception (on the white people's part) is that they aren't seeing the racisim, so they don't think it's happening.

No doubt about it.

If a black kid shows up using proper grammar, not dressing like a gangster, he's picked on for "acting white."

I can personally attest to this...even from some of my own family.

 

[Janx]

No doubt about it.



I can personally attest to this...even from some of my own family.

I imagine that folks who insist on that culture see it as sort of forming their own cultural identity or something. Given the bad stuff that happened, I suppose we can't blame them for wanting to be different.

But statistically, it's holding black people back. Math says "black" names are less likely to get their resume looked at. Folks who can't speak clearly and be understood don't get hired into better jobs. It creates a self-fulfulling prophecy that these people start off down trodden and by by adopting these patterns makes it harder to climb out.

It would be great if there were a way to communicate that in a positive way to encourage that part of society to adopt patterns that will help them get out. But I think it's a loaded topic. Everybody's all diplomatic on this thread here, but I can't imagine somebody in that demographic taking the concept I'm conveying as anything but an insult to their way of life.

Good intentions don't automatically render a good solution. Even Bill Cosby hasn't done well with the topic.