A rant of fiscal insanity

was

Adventurer
As someone who used to work for a major bank, not this specific one, I can tell you that most of these policies are not for legal reasons. It's simply an attempt to get you to open an account with them. The personal bankers perfomance reviews and bonuses are based upon the number of accounts they open. I can't tell you the number of times I had to help senior citizens close checking accounts when they realized they had 3 or 4 extra they didn't remember and were accruing fees on. It's one of the reasons I no longer work there.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
The bank policy doesn't stop any laundering of money. Sabrina had a problem depositing $500.

"Frankly, the idea that a bank won't accept modest amounts of cash (under $5000 say)..."

Order or magnitude difference, there.

A good money launderer usually has a good amount of money and legit businesses in order to clean the money.

What part of, "stop casual abuse of the system," fails to cover this?

Will this stop Al Capone? No. So, do you mean that unless a measure stops *everybody* it should not be implemented at all?

Do you have locks on your house doors? You know they won't stop someone who really knows what they're doing, right? So, why have locks at all?
 

"Frankly, the idea that a bank won't accept modest amounts of cash (under $5000 say)..."

Order or magnitude difference, there.
At a certain point it becomes counter productive to launder money. Not just for the person that needs to launder the money, but for the one doing the laundering. Would you try to launder $500? $5,000? That's not a lot of money. It can easily be spent on every day things. Also, the percentage that the cleaner gets wouldn't be worth it if they got caught. Let's say they get a generous 50%. Is it worth it to do any amount of jail time for $250?



What part of, "stop casual abuse of the system," fails to cover this?
Well, money laundering isn't a casual thing. What would you consider casual abuse of the system?

Will this stop Al Capone? No. So, do you mean that unless a measure stops *everybody* it should not be implemented at all?
[sblock=Yes, that's exactly what I said]... or not. :p[/sblock]

Do you have locks on your house doors? You know they won't stop someone who really knows what they're doing, right? So, why have locks at all?
I have locks, but some times I forget to lock my door. Fortunately I have guns as well, and they don't have locks, either.

The point is that this policy fails to stop anyone from laundering money. You need an account to deposit cash? Okay, get one. There you go. Now you can launder money. Having an account does not stop you from doing it. Like was said above, it's only meant to get you to open an account.

What's the difference between you having an account and trying to deposit $20 into my account, and you not having an account and trying to deposit $20? What about if you wanted to deposit $20,000? There is no difference. The money is going to end up in the account either way. Hell, you need an account to deposit the money into, anyway. Once that money gets cleaned, where are you going to put it?
 
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MarkB

Legend
At a certain point it becomes counter productive to launder money. Not just for the person that needs to launder the money, but for the one doing the laundering. Would you try to launder $500? $5,000? That's not a lot of money. It can easily be spent on every day things. Also, the percentage that the cleaner gets wouldn't be worth it if they got caught. Let's say they get a generous 50%. Is it worth it to do any amount of jail time for $250?

On its own, probably not - but it's an easy matter to split a larger sum, then spend a little time depositing it piecemeal over days or weeks, if doing so will keep you under the radar.
 

Janx

Hero
everybody knows you ask the former drug addict magazine solicitor on how to launder money!

I don't think crooks launder money in banks. They use dry cleaners and other cash-predominant businesses. Didn't you guys watch Breaking Bad?
 

On its own, probably not - but it's an easy matter to split a larger sum, then spend a little time depositing it piecemeal over days or weeks, if doing so will keep you under the radar.
Eh... kind of. There are laws in place that send up red flags if you deposit more than $10,000.00 in cash in a single day. So, doing as you suggest, and making smaller deposits would seem ideal, but banks have ways of noticing those patterns. Banks use computer algorithms that can notice particular depositing behaviors. In fact, depositing small amounts, as you suggest, may actually make it easier to get noticed. Consequently, if banks were actually interested in catching people who were laundering money, they would let them make deposits. The algorithms can't notice depositing behavior if there are no deposits being made. So the Chase policy to not allow people who don't have an account deposit money isn't going to prevent or help catch money laundering.

You also have to consider the amount of time it would take to launder a large amount of money. Think about it - how long would it take you to deposit $5,000.00 if you were making small deposits? How small would you make them? Would you vary the amount deposited each day? Would you vary the bank branch which you deposit the money in each day? That's going to take a lot of time and effort just to launder $5,000.00. Now imagine how much time and effort it would take to do the same for $100,000.00 or $1,000,000.00.

No, if you're going to launder money, you're going to do it a different way, unless you're keen on getting caught. Now, in this particular instance, we are talking about a personal bank account owned by Sabrina's friend. If you are going to launder money, you're not going to use a personal account. A business account is much better.

There are several ways you can launder money, none of which would be stopped by this policy that Chase has decided to implement in order to cause aggravation. As Janx mentioned, money businesses are a good way to go. You can buy services from a legit business. Businesses that accept a lot of cash are ideal. The Breaking Bad idea of a laundry place is a pretty terrible idea. You are limited in how much you can make look legit. I mean seriously, how much money do coin laundry places make? No, if you want to go this route, you would be best served with going with a business that can bring in a lot of cash when run legitimately. A bar, club, or strip club would be ideal. There is a lot of cash exchanged in places like that. This will require that you make up invoices for products "sold." There will be dirty money mixed in with clean money. This money is then deposited into a business account, and because it is a business that makes a good amount of money, large sums of cash being deposited won't send up red flags automatically.

You can also go with using foreign banks to do the dirty work for you. I'm sure you've seen movies where the criminal has some money in the Cayman Islands. Well, it's pretty accurate. I don't know if it is still the same, but you can just open up a bank account in one of these offshore banks, and transfer money from there to a U.S., or any other country, bank. There are a lot of countries where banking laws are very lose. They don't care how you got the money. They just want to have it in their bank. Yes, you can still get caught, but again, Chase's policy isn't going to stop it. Hell, it won't even detect it.

You could also go the shell company route. You can create a shell company and deposit money into it's accounts for services or products that are never actually provided. You have to keep invoices, much as if you funneled your money through a legit business, like a strip club, but you don't actually have to provide anything. In fact, you could have a legit business that deals with a shell company you or someone else has created, and have the shell company pay for services to your legit company. Again, Chase's policy wouldn't stop this method either.

If I were going to launder money, which I'm not, I'd go with a mix of the legit business, shell company, and offshore bank. You can create many layers, so that it is far more difficult for a bank or government agency to notice any suspicious activity. Preventing someone that doesn't have an account isn't going to prevent money laundering. Money laundering is a far more sophisticated crime that requires a bit of know-how. To be successful in it, you need to be intelligent and have an understanding of banking laws. The best guys tend to be accountants and lawyers. they know the ins-and-outs of the financial system.


Note: Doing an of the preceding is illegal. Money laundering is a crime, and I am by no way meaning this post to be an instructional post on how to launder money, nor am I condoning it or encouraging anyone to try it. If anyone is stupid enough to try to do any of the things that I have mentioned, and you get caught, remember... Snitches get stitches. All joking aside, seriously, don't try this at home. You'll most likely end up in jail and become someone's girlfriend.
 

delericho

Legend
A couple of years ago, WotC pulled sales of their PDFs to stop piracy. Of course, we all knew it was a stupid policy, because it was never going to do what they intended it to do.

However: Did the fact that it was a stupid policy make any difference to that policy? Did the fact that it made no sense change the motivation for doing so?

Sometimes, businesses do stupid things for reasons that don't make sense. This just seems to be another instance of that.
 

A couple of years ago, WotC pulled sales of their PDFs to stop piracy. Of course, we all knew it was a stupid policy, because it was never going to do what they intended it to do.

However: Did the fact that it was a stupid policy make any difference to that policy? Did the fact that it made no sense change the motivation for doing so?
Except that Chase's true motivation isn't really to prevent money laundering. It's to get you to open a new account with them.

Sometimes, businesses do stupid things for reasons that don't make sense. This just seems to be another instance of that.
No, it's just another instance where a bank if feeding you BS. I know someone who was told that the daily cash withdrawal limit was a "security feature" to prevent an account holder from losing too much money if their card and PIN were ever stolen. Would you buy that line?
 

nerfherder

Explorer
Note: Doing an of the preceding is illegal. Money laundering is a crime, and I am by no way meaning this post to be an instructional post on how to launder money, nor am I condoning it or encouraging anyone to try it. If anyone is stupid enough to try to do any of the things that I have mentioned, and you get caught, remember... Snitches get stitches. All joking aside, seriously, don't try this at home. You'll most likely end up in jail and become someone's girlfriend.
Thanks for your fictional information, that I'm sure could be useful for anyone running a modern crime game :)
 


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