New Captain America will be black

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I understand why they do these transitions for a while, but re-designing an established character still makes me uneasy on a meta-level.

It's one thing to re-cast due to age or fitness for a movie part, but if Marvel decided to cast the new Spectrum/Captain Marvel in an Avengers movie as a caucasian lesbian because they wanted to take the character in a new direction, i'd be as annoyed by it.

I'd like to see this movie... especially with an XXX rating.

 

[Umbran]

Really, how many female characters have their own line? Wonder Woman? Who else would the general public know?

Well, it isn't like the general public can really identify that many comic book characters to begin with. Before certain recent movies? Batman (Robin and Batgirl by extension) thanks to Adam West. Superman. Spider Man. Wonder Woman. Who else? With the start of the superhero movie boom, we can add Wolverine and X-Men to that list. Now, the Avengers. But still, the stock of characters that folks that aren't comic fans can name is probably pretty small overall, so it isn't all that strange that the public knows next to no female comics characters.

For a long time, there was a vicious cycle - comics were originally drawn for a male audience, so they got a male audience. Once your audience is male, if you think about how you should serve your audience, you come up doing more of the same.

Breaking that cycle is the right thing to do, morally speaking. It can be, however, difficult to manage in a business sense. It isn't a sure thing that a new, female character will be a commercial success. What does it help to break that cycle, if it cuts into the ever-thinning profits of a print publishing business? I think Marvel is trying to make good, more slowly than many would like, but they see the writing on the wall, and are taking at least some steps.

If the public responds favorably, maybe those openings for female artists might start showing up...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Really, how many female characters have their own line? Wonder Woman? Who else would the general public know?

Currently? No earthly idea. Historically? Double digits. Recognizable to the general public? WW & Batgirl, and probably not many besides that.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Currently? No earthly idea. Historically? Double digits. Recognizable to the general public? WW & Batgirl, and probably not many besides that.

Exactly.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Breaking that cycle is the right thing to do, morally speaking. It can be, however, difficult to manage in a business sense. It isn't a sure thing that a new, female character will be a commercial success. What does it help to break that cycle, if it cuts into the ever-thinning profits of a print publishing business? I think Marvel is trying to make good, more slowly than many would like, but they see the writing on the wall, and are taking at least some steps.

Exactly. Screw morals. We're talking business here. Morals isn't going to make Marvel a billion dollars. They're probably not willing to spend the money required to try out a new character and bring in female artists and writers to create those characters.

If the public responds favorably, maybe those openings for female artists might start showing up...

Maybe.

 

[billd91]

I completely agree with you. In fact, I'd go a bit further and say that the big comic companies are partially responsible for the lack of female writers and artists. Comics weren't really geared towards attracting a female audience - at least not the super hero comics. Really, how many female characters have their own line? Wonder Woman? Who else would the general public know?

I think it's probably not much of an issue of the big comic companies not providing opportunities to female artists and writers. I doubt they would only look at male artists and writers or otherwise keep women out of those roles. I think it probably has more to do with momentum in the medium. The artists and writers have been predominantly male, making comics for predominantly male audiences, so naturally they have been drawing and writing what they like or what appeals to themselves and their audience. Thus you get balloon-body heroines and dead girlfriends giving male characters a chance to get our their angst. That style and subject matter is kind of a juggernaut so it's totally understandable why women would not be moved by it and choose not to get involved in the industry. The big publishers have been responsible for creating that juggernaut, but I'd have a hard time saying that it restricts opportunity rather than undermines the attraction of the career.

 

[Umbran]

Exactly. Screw morals. We're talking business here. Morals isn't going to make Marvel a billion dollars.

Well, that will ultimately depend upon whether the folks who are agitating for diversity put their money where their mouths are.

They're probably not willing to spend the money required to try out a new character and bring in female artists and writers to create those characters.

In Thor, it looks like they are trying out a new character, using an old one to build the origin story. And there is a new Ms. Marvel as well, who is using an old name, but is otherwise an entirely new character, written by G. Willow Wilson, who was not regularly working for Marvel before this. That series so far seems to be doing well.

Not fast, but some motion in the right direction.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Well, that will ultimately depend upon whether the folks who are agitating for diversity put their money where their mouths are.

They won't, or at least not enough of them will.

In Thor, it looks like they are trying out a new character, using an old one to build the origin story. And there is a new Ms. Marvel as well, who is using an old name, but is otherwise an entirely new character, written by G. Willow Wilson, who was not regularly working for Marvel before this. That series so far seems to be doing well.

Not fast, but some motion in the right direction.

Yeah, but it's still piggybacking on an established character. If they had any faith in the character, they'd allow it to be a new character.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I think it's probably not much of an issue of the big comic companies not providing opportunities to female artists and writers. I doubt they would only look at male artists and writers or otherwise keep women out of those roles.

I wouldn't say they purposefully alienated female writers and artist. They did, however, foster an environment that wasn't female friendly.

I think it probably has more to do with momentum in the medium. The artists and writers have been predominantly male, making comics for predominantly male audiences, so naturally they have been drawing and writing what they like or what appeals to themselves and their audience. Thus you get balloon-body heroines and dead girlfriends giving male characters a chance to get our their angst. That style and subject matter is kind of a juggernaut so it's totally understandable why women would not be moved by it and choose not to get involved in the industry. The big publishers have been responsible for creating that juggernaut, but I'd have a hard time saying that it restricts opportunity rather than undermines the attraction of the career.

Exactly. Marvel, DC, and the other companies did nothing to bring in women. Sure, now they are starting to try to attract female writers, artists, and fans, but that has not always been the case.

 

[Umbran]

If they had any faith in the character, they'd allow it to be a new character.

Right. In the same post, you say that folks wouldn't buy, but suggest Marvel should have "faith in the character". That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I'm afraid.

If the public is unlikely to buy, then they either need to not try at all, or to use every trick in the book to encourage buying.

And, for Ms. Marvel, the plan seems to be working - Ms. Marvel seems to be outselling Iron Man, Wonder Woman, and Captain America, for example. I'll take the critical acclaim and reports of decent sales over your judgments.