delericho
Legend
You're welcome. Nice to get away from debating the business around the game, and instead give some thought to some actual gaming topics.
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BBEG advice... How to deliver good BBEG?
- Thread starter magnusmalkus
- Start date
You're welcome. Nice to get away from debating the business around the game, and instead give some thought to some actual gaming topics.
mcmillan
Adventurer
This Extra Creditz video about could be helpful
http://youtu.be/NyDx5nG7koA
http://youtu.be/NyDx5nG7koA
I had an idea that was forming just as I clicked to re-open this thread and hit the Iron DM thread by mistake and Wicht's post there about a photo-lichj had darn near the same concept.
make your villain intangible/unformed initially. His evil quest is to reform himself. So in the early stages, he's weaker, but also can't be fully hurt. Kind of like Voldemort in the first book. He's like a spirit, riding on professor whatshisnuts.
So start off with this thing ordering low minions around via secret orders, intermediaries etc (all conspiracy/spy like).
As it achieves stages of its goal of re-assembly, it is more tangible and possible to be hurt, and it becomes more directly known/involved. The irony being, the closer to its goal it gets, the more mortal it becomes.
make your villain intangible/unformed initially. His evil quest is to reform himself. So in the early stages, he's weaker, but also can't be fully hurt. Kind of like Voldemort in the first book. He's like a spirit, riding on professor whatshisnuts.
So start off with this thing ordering low minions around via secret orders, intermediaries etc (all conspiracy/spy like).
As it achieves stages of its goal of re-assembly, it is more tangible and possible to be hurt, and it becomes more directly known/involved. The irony being, the closer to its goal it gets, the more mortal it becomes.
There is also another approach - play in a genre where the villains running away to return another day are normal and expected. Discuss the genre conventions with your players and use a system that supports them.
In Fate Core, you may have a campaign aspect "The villain runs away to return later" and compel it when necessary - the villain just escaped and the players get a fate point each for their trouble. Of course, the players may refuse the compel, but if you described the genre and they accepted it, they probably won't do it.
In Cortex Plus Heroic, you may spend 2d12 from the Doom Pool to narrate the scene ending. The narration must be consistent with what happened up till this point, but unless the villain is already heavily restrained, an escape will fit (and if the villain is winning, you may narrate the PCs being captured - also something very problematic in traditional games).
In Fate Core, you may have a campaign aspect "The villain runs away to return later" and compel it when necessary - the villain just escaped and the players get a fate point each for their trouble. Of course, the players may refuse the compel, but if you described the genre and they accepted it, they probably won't do it.
In Cortex Plus Heroic, you may spend 2d12 from the Doom Pool to narrate the scene ending. The narration must be consistent with what happened up till this point, but unless the villain is already heavily restrained, an escape will fit (and if the villain is winning, you may narrate the PCs being captured - also something very problematic in traditional games).
Wednesday Boy
The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
Or in Fate Core avoiding capture can be part of the villain's concession.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
organisations and prominent people
take the Sheriff of Nottingham as an example, he has troops under his command, works under the authority of the Prince and really cant be outright killed without the PCs becoming Outlaws.
my own version was a militant religious cult expanding out across the Islands, the PCs mostly encountered the zealot warriors and their secondary leaders. The cult had high level royal support but was still aggressive against small frontier villages. Unknown to any but the BBEG and his Lieutenants the zealots were also hunting for five artifact stones which together would open up a portal for the real BBEG to emerge .
take the Sheriff of Nottingham as an example, he has troops under his command, works under the authority of the Prince and really cant be outright killed without the PCs becoming Outlaws.
my own version was a militant religious cult expanding out across the Islands, the PCs mostly encountered the zealot warriors and their secondary leaders. The cult had high level royal support but was still aggressive against small frontier villages. Unknown to any but the BBEG and his Lieutenants the zealots were also hunting for five artifact stones which together would open up a portal for the real BBEG to emerge .
One thing to be wary of is to over-use the mentor/boss is the betraying/you've been working for me the whole time trope.
It gets old, and it conditions players to not trust any NPC ever again, which also conditions them to kill first, ask questions later. Not very cinematic.
Additionally, it's really often a breach of player trust, rather than PC trust. The NPC hasn't pulled one over on the PCs. The GM took advantage of meta-game conditions when the party was new to integrate an essential NPC in order to yank their chain later. It's not much different than player running a PC who's plan is to betray the party at some point.
There are certainly times when an NPC isn't who he says he is, changes his views, etc. Best not to use the guy you glommed onto the party at 1st level in order to get the party some basic quests. The "guy who gave us the quest is really the bad guy" trope is just sucktacular to experience.
It gets old, and it conditions players to not trust any NPC ever again, which also conditions them to kill first, ask questions later. Not very cinematic.
Additionally, it's really often a breach of player trust, rather than PC trust. The NPC hasn't pulled one over on the PCs. The GM took advantage of meta-game conditions when the party was new to integrate an essential NPC in order to yank their chain later. It's not much different than player running a PC who's plan is to betray the party at some point.
There are certainly times when an NPC isn't who he says he is, changes his views, etc. Best not to use the guy you glommed onto the party at 1st level in order to get the party some basic quests. The "guy who gave us the quest is really the bad guy" trope is just sucktacular to experience.
MortalPlague
Adventurer
In case nobody else has mentioned it, some excellent BBEG advice can be found here:
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress...his-day-heroes-the-principles-of-rpg-villainy
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress...his-day-heroes-the-principles-of-rpg-villainy
One of my best villains was a character's mother (noble). Pulled her out of the character build process, noble born, running from the noble system, brothers dead. Figured she wanted the best for her only son and wanted him to good, so arranged a few adventures to get him noticed (kidnapped and had him save another noble, expose an cult lead by a merchant (that she took over the business after the merchant's death)). Tried to kill off the other characters because they were not the "right people" for her son to be hanging around with. She used a number of henchmen in her plots. It all came out when she was arranging for him to marry.
Every now and then I pull her out for an adventure.
Every now and then I pull her out for an adventure.
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