• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E AD&D-style Illithid/Dragon Magic Resistance in 5E

One of my favorite things about mind flayers has always been the way they shrug off spells with near-total impunity.

Unfortunately in 5E, that's no longer true. "Magic Resistance" now gives advantage on saves, but with their pathetic Dex +1/Con +1 saves, Mind Flayers die to Fireballs and Magic Missiles just as easily as everything else.

Now of course you could just port in MR% wholesale and declare that Mind Flayers have a 90% chance to ignore/collapse any spell, and I've considered doing so, but somehow it just doesn't feel right for the 5E idiom. How do you model a creature which shrugs off magic, while staying within the idiom?

Draft Proposal: Magic Immunity

Description: Magic Immunity is not true immunity, but the creatures which possess it have a terrifying reputation for impossible resilience to magic and resisting things that should not be resisted. Magic slides off them like water off a duck's back, and as far as the average magic-user may know, spellcasting is utterly futile against them.

Rules: Creatures with Magic Immunity gain advantage on saves vs. all spells and other magical effects (as determined by the DM, but may include Basilisk gazes, Banshee wails, monk's Stunning Strikes, perhaps even cleric turning, depending on campaign). Additionally, a creature with Magic Immunity may expend its reaction to add its proficiency bonus to its saving throw against a spell or magical effect, or to add its proficiency bonus to its AC against a spell or magical effect. It may do so after the d20 is rolled but before the DM declares the result. A creature with Magic Immunity always possesses the Avoidance trait (like a demilich): any spells which offer a saving throw for half damage instead does no damage on a successful save and half damage on a failed save.

Additionally, a creature with Magic Immunity gains the Ignore Magic action. When a creature Ignores Magic, any single-target spells cast directly on the creature end (such as Suggestion or Maze), and it is unaffected by all spells and magical effects, as if it were in an Antimagic Field (see spell), until the beginning of its next turn. Spells do not affect it, summoned creatures are unable to harm it directly, magic items do not function for or against it. (As with Antimagic Field, artifacts and deific magic are not subject to Ignore Magic.)

Magic Immunity affects CR as follows: increase effective AC by one plus the creature's proficiency bonus. Remember that +4 to effective AC equates to +1 CR.

Implications and Usage: Magic Immunity should be used sparingly, as a way for creatures to do the impossible. Imagine a Mind Flayer shrugging off lightning bolts and then, when sequestered behind a Wall of Force, waiting until the PCs turn their attention away and then eerily stepping through the Wall of Force as if it weren't even in the same dimension! Imagine an ancient dragon against whom Eldritch Blast seems to dissipate without effect, although an enchanted arrow will bring it down.

The rules above aim to capture the feel of old-school MR%, but they aren't an exact translation. A Maze spell or Wall of Force will still take a Mind Flayer out of play for at least a round; a Hold Monster spell from a sufficiently-powerful mage has a good chance to overcome its immunity by virtue of a high spell DC, and Ignore Magic will be impossible because it will be incapacitated; Magic Immunity can be overcome by brute force by using up the creature's reaction; and Magic Missiles are completely unhindered by Magic Immunity because they rely on neither saves nor attack rolls. Hopefully those limitations are acceptable or even desirable.

It might be appropriate to reduce or eliminate Legendary Resistance for creatures that have Magic Immunity, since they both serve similar purposes.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Zardnaar

Legend
I worked on a basic version with a d20 roll. Illithids with 90% MR have 19 MR. Unlike 3E caster levels do not effect this roll. You would need to roll a 19 or 20 to beat the Illithids MR. I even made a few NPCs.

Drow Weaponmaster (gladiator reskin) CR6
Medium Humanoid (any race) chaotic evil
Armor Class 19 (chain shirt, buckler,)
Hit Points 112 (15d8+45)
Speed 30 ft.
Saving Throws Dex +7, Con +6, Wis +4
Str 15 (+4), Dex 18 (+4), Con 16 (+3), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 15 (+2)
Skills Intimidation +5, Stealth +7,
Senses passive Perception 11
Languages Elven
Challenge 6 (2300 XP)
Superior Magic Resistance: 13
Skilled. A melee weapon deals one extra dice of damage when the drow hits with it (included in the attack)
Equpment (all Drow), Boots of Elvenkinfd, Cloak of Elven Kind, +1 short sword, +1 chain shirt, +1 buckler, 4 dose drow poison.
Actions.
Multiattack. The weaponmaster makes 3 melee attacks or two ranged attacks.
Shortsword. Melee or ranged Weapon Attack: +8 to hit,. Hit 11 (2d6+5) piercing damage + paralysis (DC13 con save)
Hand Crossbow +8 to hit, 1d6+4+paralysis (DC 13)
Drow traits (page 128 MM)

Drow Archer (gladiator reskin) CR6
Medium Humanoid (any race) chaotic evil
Armor Class 17 (chain shirt,)
Hit Points 112 (15d8+45)
Speed 30 ft.
Saving Throws Dex +7, Con +6, Wis +4
Str 15 (+4), Dex 18 (+4), Con 16 (+3), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 15 (+2)
Skills Intimidation +5, Stealth +7,
Senses passive Perception 11
Languages Any one language (usually common
Challenge 6 (2300 XP)
Superior Magic Resistance: 13
Skilled. A ranged weapon a +2 bonus to hit when the Drow with it (included in the attack)
Equipment (all Drow), Boots of Elvenkind, Cloak of Elven Kind, +1 hand crossbow, +1 chain shirt, +1 buckler, 4 dose drow poison.
Actions.
Multiattack. The archer makes two melee attacks or three ranged attacks.
Shortsword. Melee or ranged Weapon Attack: +18 to hit,. Hit 11 (1d6+5) piercing damage
Hand Crossbow +10 to hit, 1d6+4 piercing damage + 3d6 poison damage (DC13 con save, poisoned 1 hour/unconscious if failed by 5 or more)

Drow traits (page 128 MM)
Drow Assassin CR 9
Medium Humanoid (any race) chaotic evil
Armor Class 19 (chain shirt, buckler,)
Hit Points 136 (18d8+45)
Speed 30 ft.
Saving Throws Dex +7, Con +6, Wis +4
Str 15 (+4), Dex 20 (+5), Con 16 (+3), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 15 (+2)
Skills Intimidation +5, Stealth +7,
Senses passive Perception 11
Languages Any one language (usually common
Challenge 6 (2300 XP)
Superior Magic Resistance: 14
Skilled. A melee weapon deals one extra dice of damage when the drow hits with it (included in the attack)
Equpment (all Drow), Boots of Elvenkind, Cloak of Elven Kind, +1 short sword, +1 chain shirt, +1 buckler, 4 dose drow poison.
Actions.
Multiattack. The assassin makes 3 melee attacks or two ranged attacks.
Shortsword. Melee or ranged Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, Hit 11 (2d6+5) piercing damage + 7d6 poison damage.
Hand Crossbow +8 to hit, (DC13 con save, poisoned 1 hour/unconscious if failed by 5 or more)
Assassin Traits (Assassinate, Evasion, Sneak Attack) Page 343 MM
Drow traits (page 128 MM)
 

jrowland

First Post
Both look good guys. I like them.

In the spirit of the thread, and in the spirit of 5E, here is my slapdash K.I.S.S. version:

Give them a Permanent "Globe of Invulnerability", minor or regular, at whatever spell slot you want. The use DM fiat to allow it to work on things like a basilisks gaze.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
I appreciate the idea and enjoy the thought. I'd be more than happy to bring 1e style Magic Resistance (or a facsimile thereof) into 5e.

My couple of notes/suggestions: I would not call it "Magic Immunity." Immunity in 5e has a very specific (and literal, as it should be) meaning. Magic Immunity to 5e would/should grant 100% no damage from magic. Simple.

Similarly, Resistance, as presented in the PHB, in 5e has a specific meaning. That is, not only do you have advantage to a roll...but, more importantly, the damage is halved. Fail a save, take half. Make save take a quarter. Automatically. You have advantage on your rolls against it and take half damage against it...as evidenced by the dwarf's (and many other creatures) poison resistance. So, while I understand that PCs and monsters do things differently, I have not noticed that they changed the meaning of the term "resistance" in the game (and certainly hope I'm recalling correctly and they haven't done that!).

If monsters are not getting that auto-half damage via "resistance." I would certainly institute that into your games immediately.

But, ideally, for the 1e style "%MR", I might just go as simply as (also d20) a base DC10 + CR. So, yes, things that have magic resistance with more than 9 CR would, effectively, have "immunity"...or, if you don't like that/want to keep the chance for success, just add in "(maximum 19)".

Big issue here is, at least for 1e, many creatures we think of as "obviously magic resistance" are marked with "Standard" as their MR. Which is 1e means the chance of a spell not working at all is based on a spell from an 11th level caster and adjusting +5% for each level beneath/above 11th. So any dragon (all with "MR: Standard") could have 0 to 100% chance of the spell failing depending on the caster's level...and then, always, they make save rolls as normal if the spell takes effect. That last part is VERY important to remember.

So, just to see [and test out since I'm just making this up as I type] this in the "black/white" comparison:
. . . . . . . . . . . AD&D 1e . . . . MM D&D 5e
Creature . . . . . . .%. . . . . . . . d20 (% equivalent)
Dryad: . . . . . . . .50. . . . . . . . .11 (55%)
Satyr: . . . . . . . . 50 . . . . . . . . 10.5 (55%, rolling up)

Mindflayer: . . . . .90 . . . . . . . . 17 (85%)

Night Hag: . . . . . 65 . . . . . . . . 15 (75%)
Cambion: . . . .5-20/25-40 . . . . .15 (75%)
Succubus: . . . . . .70 . . . . . . . . 14 (70%)

Djinni: . . . . . ."Standard" . . . . . 11 (55%)
Marid: . . . . . . . . 25 . . . . . . . . 11 (55%)

Drow:Base . . . . . 50(+2/level). .10.25 (50%)
[elite]Warrior . . . .64 (7th) . . . . 15 (75%)
. . . . Mage . . . . . 70 (10th) . . . .17 (85%)
. . . . Priestess . . .70 (10th) . . . .18 (90%)

Dragons
Silver: Adult . [All]"Standard" . . . .26 (-30%/no chance)
. . . . .Young . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .19 (90%)
. . . . .Wyrmling . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 (60%)
Red: Adult . . [All]"Standard" . . . . 27 (-35%/no chance)
. . . Young . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 (0%/no chance)
. . . .Wyrmling. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 (70%)

Elementals[Any]: "Standard" . . . . 15 (75%)

So, that's all either exactly in the ballpark or higher...but never getting too high/out of control, for my tastes (excluding dragons). . .this would work for me.

Maybe I would instill that "19 [95%] maximum" so that spells still had a shot against most dragons...make the exception to the rule Ancient dragons, probably...maybe adult golds, too...with the option, of course, to voluntarily "drop"/submit themselves to a spell's effects.

So, yeah...1e-style Magic Resistance for 5e: [DM rolls!] DC10 +CR (19 maximum) to have any effect at all. If [the player is] successful roll normal saves, apply resistances, immunities, whatever else the creature has, as normal.
 
Last edited:


steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
OP was describing 2E MR which was a flat number.

I don't have any 2e monster material. Since the 5e numbers for my proposal are already done, maybe someone who has a 2e Monstrous Compendium can do the other half of the work for a comparison to 2e.

For me, the above looks like it will work great.
 

jrowland

First Post
I don't have any 2e monster material. Since the 5e numbers for my proposal are already done, maybe someone who has a 2e Monstrous Compendium can do the other half of the work for a comparison to 2e.

For me, the above looks like it will work great.

Yeah, that's pretty simple. You could complexify (uh...not a word, but whatever) it with DC10+CR-Spell Level (or 1/2 HD) so High level critters (and PCs) can blow through low level resistance.
 

pemerton

Legend
a creature with Magic Immunity gains the Ignore Magic action. When a creature Ignores Magic, any single-target spells cast directly on the creature end (such as Suggestion or Maze), and it is unaffected by all spells and magical effects, as if it were in an Antimagic Field (see spell), until the beginning of its next turn.

<snip>

Magic Missiles are completely unhindered by Magic Immunity because they rely on neither saves nor attack rolls.
Presumably Magic Missile would be affected by Ignore Magic, though.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
My couple of notes/suggestions: I would not call it "Magic Immunity." Immunity in 5e has a very specific (and literal, as it should be) meaning. Magic Immunity to 5e would/should grant 100% no damage from magic. Simple.

Similarly, Resistance, as presented in the PHB, in 5e has a specific meaning. That is, not only do you have advantage to a roll...but, more importantly, the damage is halved. Fail a save, take half. Make save take a quarter. Automatically. You have advantage on your rolls against it and take half damage against it...as evidenced by the dwarf's (and many other creatures) poison resistance. So, while I understand that PCs and monsters do things differently, I have not noticed that they changed the meaning of the term "resistance" in the game (and certainly hope I'm recalling correctly and they haven't done that!).

If monsters are not getting that auto-half damage via "resistance." I would certainly institute that into your games immediately.
No there are two kinds of "resistance" in the game: getting advantage on saves and taking half damage.

One does not necessarily follow the other. They often do, but they don't have to.

Thus: it is perfectly alright to have "fire resistance" mean half damage from fire. Or advantage on saves from fire. Or both.

When it comes to magic resistance, getting advantage from spells is the default. Getting half damage from "magic" is, on the other hand, almost unheard of. This would then be half damage against everything except non-magical attacks, which doesn't make a whole lotta sense for D&D as a game. It would be silly if the fighter put down his magical greataxe and attacked with a regular stick...

So it isn't quite as clearcut as you think it is.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Overall, I fear most suggestions are way too complex to fit the 5e "idiom".

Here's something simpler:

The Mind Flayer can cast Counterspell as a third level spell as a reaction each round.

This way, you have a ready-made 5e mechanism working for you.

Moreover, it comes with a built-in "magic resistance roll" already!

(This roll is rounded up to 100% resistance for incoming spells of third level or lower, rounded down to 0% for any spells non countered, and a number somewhere probably right above 50% for fourth level spells slowly sinking to 20-30% for level 9 spells.

But if you add the advantage on any saves the Flayer already got, the resulting resistance would be higher in practice.

If you want to talk about practical effects, yes, this would mean the party would mainly use sword and sticks on Mind Flayers, which was the entire point after all, right?)

It might not be exactly the AD&D rule, but it is very simple and very 5e! :)
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top