D&D 5E High level play

[jerryrice4949]

There does not seem to be much for playing past 20th. I saw this kickstarter

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...th-edition-game-beyond-20th-level/description

it seems to have some cool stuff like spells, feats and monsters for 20 plus with progression past 20th level too. Anyone familiar with this company?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I wonder if I am the only one that thinks the approach found in the DMG (epic boons, plus the option to increase ability scores as high as 30 but no higher - rather than continued gain of class features or new levels of spells) is the approach with greater longevity?

I mean, with the DMG I have a system that lets me play as long as I want at 20th level without there being any further change (and thus risk of failure) to the game math - but a system that adds additional levels, features, spells, and the like necessitates there being even more potent threats invented than the CR 30 monsters we've already seen and is rife with risks that progression continues to the tipping point where the math collapses under its own weight, and usually also comes along with some kind of hard-limit like progression hitting a complete dead stop at 30th or 40th level or the equivalent.

And no, I'm not familiar with that company, nor the author, in any way.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I haven't gotten to use it yet, but I like the look of the epic boons system. I far prefer that to adding any additional levels (or equally dramatic changes to characters) beyond 20th.

 

[Rhenny]

I wonder if I am the only one that thinks the approach found in the DMG (epic boons, plus the option to increase ability scores as high as 30 but no higher - rather than continued gain of class features or new levels of spells) is the approach with greater longevity?

I mean, with the DMG I have a system that lets me play as long as I want at 20th level without there being any further change (and thus risk of failure) to the game math - but a system that adds additional levels, features, spells, and the like necessitates there being even more potent threats invented than the CR 30 monsters we've already seen and is rife with risks that progression continues to the tipping point where the math collapses under its own weight, and usually also comes along with some kind of hard-limit like progression hitting a complete dead stop at 30th or 40th level or the equivalent.

And no, I'm not familiar with that company, nor the author, in any way.

Like Mouseferatu, I agree. To me, the epic boons and bounded accuracy stop the ever increasing treadmill that leads to bloat. I'm all for that.

With each full level added to the game (at any level really) pcs become more and more complicated to play. To me, eventually, the burden of learning and remembering higher level actions, powers, spells reaches overload (at least for me) so I find the boon system quite eloquent.

 

[jerryrice4949]

Like Mouseferatu, I agree. To me, the epic boons and bounded accuracy stop the ever increasing treadmill that leads to bloat. I'm all for that.

With each full level added to the game (at any level really) pcs become more and more complicated to play. To me, eventually, the burden of learning and remembering higher level actions, powers, spells reaches overload (at least for me) so I find the boon system quite eloquent.

I can totally see your point. But at the same time the boons are quite boring. It may be the lesser of two evils but it does not add much to differentiate high level characters. I realize this is probably not a big deal since few people play past 20th but I think the lack of cool creatures, plot lines and the relative uninspired natures of the boons is part of the reason.

 

[Sunseeker]

I wonder if I am the only one that thinks the approach found in the DMG (epic boons, plus the option to increase ability scores as high as 30 but no higher - rather than continued gain of class features or new levels of spells) is the approach with greater longevity?

I mean, with the DMG I have a system that lets me play as long as I want at 20th level without there being any further change (and thus risk of failure) to the game math - but a system that adds additional levels, features, spells, and the like necessitates there being even more potent threats invented than the CR 30 monsters we've already seen and is rife with risks that progression continues to the tipping point where the math collapses under its own weight, and usually also comes along with some kind of hard-limit like progression hitting a complete dead stop at 30th or 40th level or the equivalent.

And no, I'm not familiar with that company, nor the author, in any way.

I did something similar in my current game. Though it's highly specific to my setting, the idea is that your class only gets you so far, from thereon out you can gain "motes of power" through continued questing, conquering and completing various events around the world which give you various boons which provide additional combat ability, general utility and other things, with a spot left open for players to suggest their own boons.

One thing I did change though, I allow players to trade levels for boons, in order to slow down the leveling process substantially.

 

[Rhenny]

I can totally see your point. But at the same time the boons are quite boring. It may be the lesser of two evils but it does not add much to differentiate high level characters. I realize this is probably not a big deal since few people play past 20th but I think the lack of cool creatures, plot lines and the relative uninspired natures of the boons is part of the reason.

I see your point too, and quite honestly I love reading new class material and expansions even if I never use them in play. If I had unlimited funds (or somewhat more than I have now), I'd probably buy many more 3rd party products because as you say, they often do inspire me.

Edit: I took a quick look at their web previews and it does look pretty interesting. Didn't study it or try to see how it would affect the game though.

 

[Giant2005]

Anyone familiar with this company?

I'm not familiar with anything that they have released but they have been over on reddit for quite some time seeking balancing tips and such.

 

[Prism]

We are using the DMG epic boon system in our game and its working nicely. Most of the boons are custom created though, using the DMG ones as guidance. Our characters are currently 23rd and 26th (two campaigns) level

 

[S'mon]

I wonder if I am the only one that thinks the approach found in the DMG (epic boons, plus the option to increase ability scores as high as 30 but no higher - rather than continued gain of class features or new levels of spells) is the approach with greater longevity?

I mean, with the DMG I have a system that lets me play as long as I want at 20th level without there being any further change (and thus risk of failure) to the game math - but a system that adds additional levels, features, spells, and the like necessitates there being even more potent threats invented than the CR 30 monsters we've already seen and is rife with risks that progression continues to the tipping point where the math collapses under its own weight, and usually also comes along with some kind of hard-limit like progression hitting a complete dead stop at 30th or 40th level or the equivalent.

And no, I'm not familiar with that company, nor the author, in any way.

I strongly agree, but I don't think letting stats go to 30 is a good idea, giving out +5 bonuses will screw up the math eventually. I've been thinking a lot about advancement beyond 20th as it's quite likely both my 5e campaigns will go that far, and the game seems well-suited to it. My current plan is not to use XP beyond 20th, rather the PCs earn an Epic Boon every time they complete a genuinely Epic task, something like a 4-5 session adventure at least (probably about half as frequent as a level-up below 20). I may let them take a Feat or +2 stat bump (to max 20) instead of the proferred Boon, not sure yet.

I think the DMG Epic Boon system offers great potential for long-term play with mostly lateral development, in a way that adding levels 21-30 to the base game would not. Much easier to stat eg demon lords that can be threatening indefinitely.