DMs Guild Pay What You Want on the DMs Guild - An Analysis and Explanation

[RCanine]

I'm curious how much alphabetical order has contributed to the author's success. There's a reason Diego Bastet keeps changing his titles to include more pound signs and digits.

I put out an experimental PWYW piece as well: Aarakocra Subrace: The Earthbound.

Interestingly I've got:

• 152 downloads
• 11 people paid
• $0.87 average price paid
• 5 people gave me star ratings
• 1 person wrote a review
• 1 person filled out the feedback form I included in the PDF

The content itself was pretty quickly done, so I don't expect it to go platinum, but I'm surprised there was less rating and reviewing relative to the number of people that downloaded it.

 

[Sunseeker]

That is the whole point. It is extremely rare for anyone to post an item at the price they think it is worth because it attracts less sales. Instead they post them at a price that they think people will be happy to pay.
Therefore the price listed on the site has nothing at all to do with what the writer thinks it is worth.

It's called Supply AND Demand. Not Supply OR Demand, not just Supply and not just Demand. The obvious answer is that the Price Point is a compromise between the two. Would I have been happier to pay less for my 5E books? Probably. $50 is kinda steep for it's content IMO. Are people "happy" about this price point? I don't know, you'd need thousands of dollars of market research to find out. I think by and large, you'd find most people are simply used to the 50-a-book price point, not necessarily happy about it.

More than that though, the notion of being willing to buy a product at an expensive price (say $10) but not being willing to buy that same product at a cheaper price (say $2) is absurd and flies in the face of economics. If you genuinely think that way, you aren't anyone's target audience - you are a statistical anomaly.

This makes so many bad assumptions it's really not worth addressing. So, unless the product you're selling is gasoline, water, or milk, your product is probably not exactly the same as someone else's.

There are many RPGs on the market. Many of them are cheaper than D&D, but many of them are also not D&D. Clearly, they are different, and thus, warrant different prices. Even for the "Generic Fantasy RPGs" genre, there are a lot of cheaper alternatives to D&D. Yet D&D is still one of the top sellers. Your focus on price is missing the mark so badly I wonder why're you're even shooting for it. D&D offers a lot of things that another product might not. Developer support, errata, communication, high editing standards, high functionality, broad appeal.

So again, unless you're selling gasoline, water or milk, there's no such thing as "the same product" unless you're under the impression that a Ford Focus and a GMC Yukon are the "same product" because they are both cars.

Clearly this

is not this

so even though they're "the same" in so much that they both represent a woman, sitting, while possibly smiling in front of some scenery, I suspect one of these you you pay more for.

 

[NotActuallyTim]

Yes, you pay for the one on the left, because it has the microfilm in it that shows you the secret blueprints to Russias' top nuclear research facilities.

Or because the money will be donated to charity. Or because the new artistic paradigm means that lower effort art is now the true art, and the older, higher skill art is now the poop art.

Or maybe, just maybe, you pay more for the one on the left so you can win an internet argument on a forum called ENworld, because that's worth more to you than 2 dimensional images.

http://www.critical-hits.com/blog/2015/03/23/ars-gratia-pecuniae-art-magic-murder-hobos-and-cash/

Value: it's only worth what people pay for it!

 

[Giant2005]

This makes so many bad assumptions it's really not worth addressing. So, unless the product you're selling is gasoline, water, or milk, your product is probably not exactly the same as someone else's.

I'm not comparing my product to anyone else's, I am comparing the product to itself just at different price points.
The notion that has been put forth is that a product with a higher price point is to be more demanded because it is a sign of confidence in your work. Therefore that same product at a lower price point is to be less demanded due to less confidence in your work signifying a less desirable product.
That is literally the opposite of the laws of supply and demand - as the price increases, the demand decreases but you are trying to convince people to turn the laws of economics on its side and increase their demand as the price increases.

 

[CapnZapp]

This only affects those people not just unwilling to pay for my work, but unwilling to pay for *anyone's* work including some fantastic stuff by other great fan publishers, content by well established and reputable 3rd party publishers, expansion content for official adventures by the original authors, content by former WotC designers, and even official PDFs.

At that point, I'm not sure I want their downloads if they're that entitled they with *only* take free content and won't even pay for WotC PDF material.

Y'know, plus much of my stuff is available free on my website as OGL content. It's revised and expanded for the PDF but not new...

I can understand the rationalization "I don't want those customers anyhow".

I disagree and think it is a perilous stance for a budding designer with low name recognition to take.

But I understand it.

However, plenty of people really only open their wallets to official dead tree publications by WotC, thinking that's the only kind of product quality tested enough. The only way you'll ever get their money is to hand them impressive stuff for free first.

That's my free advice to you. There's really not much to discuss. Please either accept it or not. But I don't think much good will come from debating it.

 

[Connorsrpg]

WE are aiming to get some products on the DMGuild. Unfortunately, we don't have a PDF layout sorted so we have missed the flying start We were initially going to start with PWYW products, but I really have no idea what to do now

On ENWorld there is a thread stating paying artists what they are worth and overall the vibe of the thread was very positive. People seemed to be willing to do so. Yet here we are talking about writers and publishers and people seem quite happy to leave $0. I know that is a possibility if you go PWYW, but I am sure most people do so b/c they 'don't literally know what to charge'. It just seems a pity members of the RP community don't seem to feel the same way about rewarding the writers/publishers as artists.

Of course that is the gig, but man, considering what a coffee costs these days, you would think more than about 1 in 10 (worse for some products, slightly better for others, like the OP) roleplayers (and fellow DMs that know how much time these things take) would be willing to pitch in a little. I am quite shocked to tell the truth. I know it is easy to say, "well, the writer has allowed this" but man, I find this a little sad to tell the truth. Especially as many writers/publishers have stated they would even be happy to be paid in reviews.

Surely, we as a buying audience can support each other a little better than that. (FWIW. Yes, I may sound like a hypocrite - I have not set up an a/c yet. But I intend to and I will pay/review when I do. Bandcamp opperates the same way and I just can't bring myself to not pay these guys).

 

[delericho]

But I dislike some of the language behind support for PWYW, it runs very close to "doing it for exposure", which is a complete and total load of words I can't use on this forum.

There's a difference between a publisher approaching a would-be writer with an offer to "pay with exposure" (which I agree is bogus), versus a writer deciding for himself to do the same (which is his/her prerogative).

 

[delericho]

WE are aiming to get some products on the DMGuild. Unfortunately, we don't have a PDF layout sorted so we have missed the flying start We were initially going to start with PWYW products, but I really have no idea what to do now

You'll have to decide for yourself what to charge - after what I've just posted, I can't advocate one way or the other!

However, I would note that the DMguild is necessarily a tiny niche market - it's catering only to the subset of D&D players who are interested not just in supplemental material, and not even just electronic supplemental material (as opposed to in-print, though PoD is possible), but who are interested in third-party electronic supplemental material. Unless you have a 'name', it's probably not possible to make any significant money from it (that is, Ed Greenwood will no doubt do very well; I couldn't). It's probably worth factoring that in when deciding how to price.

On ENWorld there is a thread stating paying artists what they are worth and overall the vibe of the thread was very positive. People seemed to be willing to do so. Yet here we are talking about writers and publishers and people seem quite happy to leave $0. I know that is a possibility if you go PWYW, but I am sure most people do so b/c they 'don't literally know what to charge'. It just seems a pity members of the RP community don't seem to feel the same way about rewarding the writers/publishers as artists.

There's an earlier thread about what writers are worth that was similarly very positive. Problem is, there's sometimes a disconnect between what people say and what they do.

And the sad fact is that once the three Core Rulebooks have provided a complete game, people don't have to pay for anything else - and many actively prefer creating their own material for use. That serves to limit both the number of people willing to buy, and also what they're willing to pay.

 

[Giant2005]

There's a difference between a publisher approaching a would-be writer with an offer to "pay with exposure" (which I agree is bogus), versus a writer deciding for himself to do the same (which is his/her prerogative).

I find that PWYW has the opposite effect.
To get exposure on DM's Guild you need to climb the ranks enough to get your product advertised. Free downloads contribute nothing to your ascension through the ranks so giving people the opportunity to get it for free stifles how much DM's Guild are willing to advertise your product.

 

[BMaC]

If you look at what artists expect to be paid--based on what I've seen in the other thread--to what the actual going rate is for freelance writers (a few pennies per word) the disparity is huge.