Harassment in gaming

[MechaPilot]

I agree - many of the examples she pointed out would be classified as sexual assault, which is a criminal issue. That doesn't really change my points, though.

Well you're certainly not going to hear me say that the generalizations aren't a distraction. However, I do find myself wondering if we would even be discussing the article if it weren't for the inflammatory language used. One of the things that I absolutely hate is the way no one seems to pay attention to calm, rational voices. Instead, everyone these days seems to gravitate toward the more sensational and extreme voices. If you have a message that you feel is important, and you know that people generally don't pay attention to rational but passionate advocacy, you might find yourself weighing the value of the inflammatory rhetoric as a tool to get your message noticed versus how significant a distraction it will be to any discussion of your message.

 

[Hussar]

Where's the proof that she's received death/rape threats from Wyrd staff members?

Out of curiosity, I noticed that you capitalized the word "women" multiple times in your post, but you didn't capitalize the word "men". Why did you do that?

Hey [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION], I believe this is exactly what [MENTION=9037]Elf Witch[/MENTION] was talking about when she talked about burden of proof. Here's your example right here.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Well you're certainly not going to hear me say that the generalizations aren't a distraction. However, I do find myself wondering if we would even be discussing the article if it weren't for the inflammatory language used. One of the things that I absolutely hate is the way no one seems to pay attention to calm, rational voices. Instead, everyone these days seems to gravitate toward the more sensational and extreme voices. If you have a message that you feel is important, and you know that people generally don't pay attention to rational but passionate advocacy, you might find yourself weighing the value of the inflammatory rhetoric as a tool to get your message noticed versus how significant a distraction it will be to any discussion of your message.

You can use click-bait titles to draw people to an article. Those titles don't have to be the type that will alienate a good portion of your readers, though. Even if you use one that is, you don't have to carry the sensationalism over into the article itself. Doing so tends to do more harm than good if you have a serious message.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Ugh - another unintentional double post. Not sure why it keeps doing that.

 

[Maxperson]

You are being asked to set aside for a moment whether it "warrants" defense - that's about *your* rights, *your* feelings, putting focus on *you* as a victim.

No victim should have to put aside their rights or feeling over someone else being a bigger victim. Should she put aside her feelings and rights over someone else being raped? Should that raped woman put aside her rights and feeling over another woman being murdered? Should the family of the murdered woman put aside her rights and feelings because bombings happen?

That there was a Slippery Slope for those who don't know, but it illustrates the point very well. No victim should have to be silent and put aside rights and feelings because of a more prominent victim. They have the right to say, "Hey, I don't do that so leave me out of that attack. Now, let's see what we can do about your issue."

 

[Maxperson]

Do you consider yourself a "white male terrorist"? If the answer is 'Yes', then okay, I can understand getting defensive about her comments.

But if you don't consider yourself a "white male terrorist"... then you don't fall into the category of people she was insulting, and thus there should be absolutely no reason to feel defensive. She wasn't talking about you.

But if you (the general 'You') DO feel defensive when she calls out "white male terrorists" and have to always go "Hey man, it's not me, I'm not like that!"... I'm willing to bet its because you *do* feel a bit of guilt when she brings stuff like that up. As a result, perhaps you aren't as free from blame in the situation as you might want to believe. You might not actively DO the things that she's defining as white male terrorism... but if you're doing nothing whatsoever to help or fix it, you're passively allowing it to happen. Whether or not (general) you get defensive about that says a whole lot about who you are as a person.

Speaking personally... I try to behave as well as I think I can. I also know I don't go nearly that far out of my way to actively help situations when I could. So yeah, the privilege I have as a straight, white, man to basically ignore all of this crap means I am tacitly guilty. So the question comes down to whether or not I feel guilty (or get defensive) when I'm called out on it. And for me... I'm luckily quite capable of not identifying with any group so closely that an insult to the group is an insult to me (again due to my privilege). If someone insults all white people and say we are not doing enough to help racism in this country... I don't take it personally. If someone insults all straight people and say we are not doing enough to help homophobia in this country... I don't take it personally. If someone insults all gamers and say we are not doing enough to help other gamers who are being crapped upon in this country... I don't take it personally. The only time I'd take it personally would be if someone said to me "Hey, Fish... you had a chance to help out here in this situation and you didn't do it. That was a crappy thing." At which point, yes, THEN I might be within my rights to get defensive... but hopefully at the same time my compassion and empathy would kick in and I'd instead take a good hard look at what I did or didn't do, and whether I needed to apologize and/or learn from the mistake for the future.

That sort of twisted logic is the kind that says that people are wrong for not wanting the police to just walk into their homes whenever they wish to search it. After all, if they don't have anything to hide it shouldn't upset them.

No. If someone who is completely innocent has someone walk up and punch him in the face, he has the right to be offended and defend himself. He isn't wrong for doing so just because he's innocent. I don't become, feel or even look guilty when I defend myself from an attack over something that I didn't do.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm a black male born in Louisiana and living in Texas. Have done most of my life. Some of my hobbies- gaming, going to heavy metal concerts, etc- are extremely Caucasian-centric. While I'm a pretty easy going guy and like to think the best of people, I would be lying to you if I told you that I don't become more hyper-alert around unfamiliar white males than around any other group. I don't live in fear, but I do live with caution.

That's normal, though. Any time anyone of any color is out of their element and in unfamiliar and potentially dangerous situations they get hyper-alert. I am when I go through neighborhoods that are hispanic or black and known for gangs. I'm out of place and alone, so I am very alert to what is going on with the people I pass.

 

[Hussar]

But there's a difference though. You aren't hyper alert because you're different. You're hyper alert because that area is dangerous. I doubt you think twice when sitting down in a Chinese restaurant despite the fact that you are maybe in the ethnic minority at that specific point in time.

It's not like you'd be hyper alert walking into a gaming store.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That's normal, though. Any time anyone of any color is out of their element and in unfamiliar and potentially dangerous situations they get hyper-alert. I am when I go through neighborhoods that are hispanic or black and known for gangs. I'm out of place and alone, so I am very alert to what is going on with the people I pass.

Out of my element?

I'm a black man living in a predominantly white society. But for the first 4 years of my life, I have always lived in predominantly white neighborhoods. I went to schools on military bases, big cities, suburbs, and small Midwestern towns, all predominantly white- some, overwhelmingly so.*

By your definition, I am almost never in my element.

I'm hypervigilant because white males- especially in the South- do things like burn crosses and decorate trees with strange fruit.








* I was the first black guy to graduate from my high school (the next came 10 years later) and one of 20 blacks in my college's student body of @5500.

 

[Elf Witch]

Don't assume that the problem is that I don't understand. You don't need to define institutionalized racism for me. I understand your argument. The problem is that I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with you.



In the same way, "no one" is saying what the original essayist endured is in any way justified.

It comes down to this. I fully agree with you that sexual assault and harassment (to say nothing of rape) is appalling, and prevalence in gaming subcultures is worthy of discussion, and that we all ought to do everything we can to stop it when we see it. But the underlying framework by which I come to that conclusion is not perfectly in agreement with yours. There is a lot of overlap. There are a lot of things we do agree on. But some of your framework about how you see the world doesn't line up with some of mine. If the only way I can prove I'm not one of the "white male terrorists" is agree with you about every detail, then we are in a lot of trouble. My disagreement with you over these other matters that you just think I'm not getting, which in fact I do 'get' but have rejected, should not get in the way of agreeing to make the world a better place, with more compassion, and more respect for each other. But, if my disagreement with you is met only with the accusation that I'm either a "white male terrorist" or enabling "white male terrorists", then there isn't a lot of hope to be had.

Tell me where anyone here has said that if you don't totally agree with what we are saying you are white male terrorist? I certainly have not said that or implied that I thought it. I disagree with a lot of what you are saying but I have not seen you defending the jerks that do this or blaming the victim or calling her liar like I have seen on some other forums. I even said earlier that nothing you have ever posted here has lead me to believe that you were a jerk.