D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.

[Willie the Duck]

Well if you look at the bottom of my OP you will see lots of people have given me XP so I wouldn't say the thread has started off on the wrong foot.

I do not see how the two are related. I was also stating an opinion. Ifind the way this thread started as troubling and containing a preemptive hostility that was genuinely unnecessary.

Secondly. I'm not sure if you have been reading up but anytime you state you want more content you get told to just go to DMsGuild.

I am not a strong regular on Enworld, so I guess I have not been reading up. However, that is a very reasonable suggestion when first encountering someone saying they want more content. Whether it meets your needs is a different question

Fan stuff has been around a long time and the attitude towards that stuff hasn't changed in all these years. Any time you bring something with the WoTc seal of approval to the table most DM's won't even bat an eye because that seal let's people know that it has been tested and comes from a reasonably trusted source. Other stuff is not so allowed by tons of DM's. Third party products lots of times has a hard time being allowed not to mention fan based stuff. All DMsGuild does with regards to WoTc is allow you to make a little money. None of the stuff there gets the seal of of approval. You buy it and use at your own risk.

Well, you buy and use anything at your own risk. Both TSR and WotC have put out some royal stinkers in probably every edition going back to the original Blackmoor expansion in '75 (or I suppose some people might say that Greyhawk was a stinker).

Either way, do you see how I see a disconnect between 1) considering WotC a trusted source for gaming material, and 2) considering WotC's release schedule decisions highly questionable? The later I think would make the former less trusted, and thus favoring WotC material over 3pp a disconnect.

However, it appears that the primary issue you are referencing is about whether it will be accepted as a player bringing it to a new DM's table, correct? That's certainly true. More DMs will trust WotC over johnny unknown. However, I certainly know that in 3e, I had plenty of occasion where a DM would ban specific WotC books or parts of books. Having the WotC brand was certainly no guarantee of approval. Were WotC to increase their output (especially in crunch) for 5e, might they not potentially include some of the same poorly thought out additions that made people accept 3e material only on a case-by-case basis? I know for me, the last thing I want 5e to do is turn into another 20 splats that I have to drag around only to also keep a notebook outlining which of the options or builds within that my DM will allow. That's certainly not a better position to be in than using homebrew. That's a direct expression of opinion, and I get that you likely disagree.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Secondly. I'm not sure if you have been reading up but anytime you state you want more content you get told to just go to DMsGuild.

Or to create it yourself. Seriously, does no one talk with their DMs anymore about homebrew content? And the reason the typical answer to people asking for more content is to visit the DMs Guild is because the DMs Guild is full of content. It's an obvious answer to the question. WoTC will NEVER be able to provide official content for everyone's wishes. Especially when those wishes are pretty niche. so your solution is to use someone else's 3PP they created (speaking of, I disagree with this assumption that official content is somehow automatically better), or create it yourself. Both are viable and workable solutions. PooPooing on both of those options, and I don't know what to tell you. WoTC would be fools to spend the time and resources on material only a handful of people would use. And with their implementation of the DM's Guild, it's very obvious that they are saying they will never do that, leaving it to the fans to create that content. Complaining about it every week will resolve nothing. Demanding it is nothing but entitlement. The game isn't designed for you, it's designed for everyone. You have the tools. You have the resources. You have the empowerment and signoff by WotC to do so. There is nothing more they can reasonably do, and it comes a point where you need to fish or cut bait. I.e., if D&D doesn't fit your needs and if the tools given to you don't fit your needs, stick the game that does. Everyone deserves to have fun playing a game, and the reality is that some games do that while others don't.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

In regard to DMGuild content not being accepted, that's something I can understand. Content from the DMGuild is not canonical.

It probably seems strange to some to approach rules content in such a manner. But, to me at least, rules content for an RPG is still part of the overall thing that is the story, world, and experience of the game. And content is either canonical, or it is not.

Now, I'm not extreme in this. I'm willing to use non-canon material sometimes. Especially as a game master. But I get it.

 

[MoonSong]

Are you labeling my character concept as "an overpowered monstrosity"? Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. There are plenty of systems that could handle it just fine. And the comparison wasn't about "powerfulness", or "monstrositiness," but one of "specificity." MoonSong's character was hyper specific. Like mine.

To be fair I wasn't going to answer to that, because I felt you were making a mockery of what I want. You could have found a better example that wasn't screaming "Hey look how awesomely monstrous I am."
What I described was the poster child of what I want, not a literal character build. So far I have used elements here and there of that composite character, not every sorceress I have played had a talking raven, but the relationship with the familiars has been a strong element with most of them. Not everyone was a melee combatant, but the spear is both iconic and a representation of how I roll -without combat magic, without blowing stuff apart-. I only put together the flying disk/servant combo once, it wasn't a drag, it was push and more than one servant, but both spells show my approach to magic, to cause mayhem, to do unexpected things, to create stuff, to shape the world around. Those spells have been staples of my playing before.

And not everyone has been dumb as nuts, some were clever, but having to carry a book around ruins the illusion, it spoils the fantasy of what I want. It reinforces the technocratic positivistic vibe that permeates the world around us, part of me playing is to get away from that, from a cold emotionless environment. Part of my fantasy involves emotions and humanity being a thing greater than us, not being subjugated and limited by cold reason.

MoonSong, it is highly disappointing that you are continuing to act like you are being hurt or attacked in this thread, when in reality people are bending over backwards to try to help you out with your situation. It is decidedly not their fault that each and every one of their suggestions do not meet your exceedingly difficult to meet expectations.

Sorry for that, but you have to understand, this argument is not new. I know I'm perpetually stuck repeating myself, and I want to be grateful. I could be wrong, maybe this is a misunderstanding, but a lot of the time all of these suggestions seem to be joined by dismissiveness of what I want/need and no less patronizing, as if I was dumb enough to not think of it before, but it is stuff that hasn't worked out before.

I'm a strong proponent of third party and homebrew, I liberally use both whenever I run my games. I was the first one to propose a full class to En5ider -I was scared as hell when I did it, after being told over and over that I'm so wrong, that what I want is somehow bad and I'm an egotist entitled munchkin ... Anyway James is a great guy and he held my hand during the process-. Yet it hasn't helped me at all, how can I dare to ask for some accommodations? a lot of the time I don't even get the chance to ask. And in what way can I get the nerves to ask for homebrew, if DMs go bananas when I even bring out some basic refluffing? I can count myself lucky when I get to play period.

Am sorry if I overreact, but this just keeps repeating itself, now cue someone else telling me that WotC owes me nothing and that it is all my own fault for having character flaws and not being this bossy person that can get away with everything.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Am sorry if I overreact, but this just keeps repeating itself, now cue someone else telling me that WotC owes me nothing and that it is all my own fault for having character flaws and not being this bossy person that can get away with everything.

I... um...wow. I think perhaps we're not going to be able to help much here because I think some stuff that did not come from this thread are bleeding into this perception. I can say no one is blaming you for anything. What we are saying is that your desires are so specific that they probably aren't going to be realized within the limitations that they have to be official 5e D&D content. I too, would like something I am not going to get. I would like (non-krynn) minotaurs in D&D to go back to being cursed humanoid driven mad, rather than a naturally occurring species of Baphomet (or whoever it is) worshipping creatures. That's highly specific, and I'm not going to get it. Likewise, you have a highly specific character concept that (by all accounts quite accidentally) did not fall within the confines of possible as a 5e sorcerer. The reasonable courses of action are what we've all discussed and won't work for you. I guess we're at the point of "well, now what?" If all you want is to complain about this fact, well then by all means go ahead. We shouldn't want to suggest that that isn't welcome.

 

[Corwin]

To be fair I wasn't going to answer to that, because I felt you were making a mockery of what I want. You could have found a better example that wasn't screaming "Hey look how awesomely monstrous I am."

To be blunt, I do not accept your attempts to tell me how to make my points. And if you think Helkboyrine is not playable, that's on you. I've played in games of various settings, using numerous systems, where it would work just fine. So again, your dismissal is a bit shocking coming from someone who, in the same breath, is complaining about being dismissed.

What I described was the poster child of what I want, not a literal character build.

So you were exaggerating for effect. That's interesting since you just chastised me for doing the same by your measure.

...but both spells show my approach to magic, to cause mayhem, to do unexpected things, to create stuff, to shape the world around. Those spells have been staples of my playing before.

I cannot recall an edition of D&D that magic fit that description. Spells in 5e have always been a codified thing. If you like a more creatively open, free-form magic system, there are some great RPGs out there. I don't think D&D is one of them.

Part of my fantasy involves emotions and humanity being a thing greater than us, not being subjugated and limited by cold reason.

Honestly, the first thing that came to my mind after reading that was, "And this person is choosing to get all hung up on the mechanical minutia of the system?" Anyone who thinks and talks like that *should* be able to make 5e do what they want, not the other way around. But that's just my impression. Am I wrong?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Or to create it yourself. Seriously, does no one talk with their DMs anymore about homebrew content?

It's been out of style for 20 years or so, so that shouldn't come as a shock. A disappointment, but not a shock, as much as 5e has been pushing DM Empowerment, both the players and DM have to realize how that can be used to make the game better for the players (who are, afterall, the folks meant to be entertained - podcasts aside, it's not a spectator sport). Letting an aggressive player steamroll you into playing some game-wrecking abomination (be it stereotypically non-cannonical, or straight outta Core), is not part of that, but listening to what players want, and looking into customization that could work for you campaign can be.

A lot of DMs may not be there yet. They may have figured out to accept that they're Empowered and start trying to run better games by making better rulings, but still not be comfortable with adding house rules, 3pp rules, or the like, still wanting to lean on whatever perceived functionality or stability is in the official or standard rules. (And, of course, there's AL.)


From some of the suggestions and ideas offered (in earlier threads, mostly), I think MoonSong might hypothetically be quite happy playing a variant sorcerer at some of our tables - but has just consistently been out of luck with DMs she's drawn (or simply been playing AL where it's not an option in the first place).

Some official support would go a long way because it makes things easier for me. I'm not an "official only" fetishist, but official content makes my life easier -or harder as hostility and goodwill have become scarcer since the Stormborn was printed without the bonus spells-.

One thing 5e has delivered on more than I expected (there's something to be said for lowered expectations) is the return to acceptance of variants ('house rule'/'modules'), it's not nearly where it could be, but I like to think, that 5e, with it's DM Empowerment & rulings-not-rules motto and things like DMsGuild, is actively trying to go there, still.

 

[Corpsetaker]

One thing 5e has delivered on more than I expected (there's something to be said for lowered expectations) is the return to acceptance of variants ('house rule'/'modules'), it's not nearly where it could be, but I like to think, that 5e, with it's DM Empowerment & rulings-not-rules motto and things like DMsGuild, is actively trying to go there, still.

Here's a little food for thought. There is a big difference between rules and rulings vs material outside of the core. Do we even know if their "DM empowered" direction is an acknowledgment of material outside the core, or is DM empowerment with in the core of the game. I can see them pushing a "change the rules as you see fit" but not a "using fan based, non tested material" push. It looks to me like they have pushed the fan based stuff as a "use at your own risk" kind of thing.

 

[Corpsetaker]

In regard to DMGuild content not being accepted, that's something I can understand. Content from the DMGuild is not canonical.

It probably seems strange to some to approach rules content in such a manner. But, to me at least, rules content for an RPG is still part of the overall thing that is the story, world, and experience of the game. And content is either canonical, or it is not.

Now, I'm not extreme in this. I'm willing to use non-canon material sometimes. Especially as a game master. But I get it.

I like to use 3rd party non mechanical material such as the 3rd edition "Bard's Gate" supplement and the "Borderland Provinces" by FGG. With this type of stuff you can't go wrong unless it's just badly written.