Do You Think Encounters Should be Difficult?

[AzureKobold]

When my players moan and complain that an encounter is too difficult I always wonder what is there to a game if there is no penalty for losing. If there is no challenge to overcome why play? Is there satisfaction in overcoming nothing and achieving nothing? I understand that players get attached to their characters and don't want to see them go but...Isn't that a compelling part of storytelling? Seeing a beloved character breath his last and feel the emotion that comes with his death?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Do they complain before or after?
Do they complain when everyone survived or when it was a TPK?
Do you kill a lot of characters?

I think encounters should be meaningful, and yes, that they should challenge the group somehow.

AR

 

[AzureKobold]

In recent times I've killed about 3 or 4 characters, most encounters people complain about don't have casualties. When they complain it's normally when they think that "No party of level X can beat this!" I DM Adventurers League in between seasons, so I will be friends with about 2-3 people who show. In one encounter a player charged at the boss in such a way that his friends couldn't get to him, got slaughtered by a vampire and complained that it was impossible and never showed up again

 

[Bedrockgames]

When my players moan and complain that an encounter is too difficult I always wonder what is there to a game if there is no penalty for losing. If there is no challenge to overcome why play? Is there satisfaction in overcoming nothing and achieving nothing? I understand that players get attached to their characters and don't want to see them go but...Isn't that a compelling part of storytelling? Seeing a beloved character breath his last and feel the emotion that comes with his death?

I like encounters to be all over the map in terms of difficulty.

 

[Blue]

I'm a fan of varied encounter difficulties, bouncing around between moderate and OMG you've got to be kidding me!, with the occasion difficult looking but easy to let the PCs feel like they are tough and getting better. (Even better if that can be against things they had problems with as a solo and now they can slaughter several).

This is both as a player and a DM. As a player a series of moderate challenge but no real risk encounters bores me to death. There's a real thrill and feeling of accomplishment (or at least feeling of relief) overcoming a really tough combat.

When I DM, I like to change up the parameters of battles so that different characters have chances to shine, and also characters may need to vary away from tried-and-true tactics to fit the situation at hand. Part of this is the monsters - hordes vs. solo, force composition, especially ranged or casters, another part is terrain, a third part is outside factors - time limits before reinforcements, people to save, a ritual to stop, etc.

I do like overwhelming but stupid forces (mindless undead, beasts) that the players can outsmart, just as I like really smart foes who use every advantage they can but are smarter then they are tough.

I often design encounters from hard to nigh-deadly (the English words, not the encounter building guideline keywords). But the flip side is that I roll everything in from of the players and I'm their #1 cheerleader and guy who says "YES" to their crazy plans. I hope the succeed, I just know that if they approach things in a predicable and boring manner the math is not in their favor.

In the 2+ years of my current campaign we haven't have a single death, though we have had plenty of knockouts and times when the players know that if they were a bit slower it could have been a TPK.

I try not to set up so that just a few bad dice rolls will kill, though I did almost have one of those recently. While fighting on an experimental dwarven zeppelin, the rogue failed several skill checks not to fall while doing risky maneuvers. After the last of them he would have fallen to his death except another character shot him with a harpoon from a ballista so he ended up dangling from the rope below the airship. He had enough HPs to take it, it was just a series of failed rolls that put him in that place.

 

[Celebrim]

I have been DMing my current campaign for over 6 years. In that time the PC's have managed to hit 9th level. However, for the 6 current PC's, there are 10 dead PCs, and only 1 extant PC has survived since the beginning of the game at 1st level. All 10 deaths have occurred since 5th level. Several players are notably less effective at keeping PCs alive than other, with 7 of the 10 deaths divided among 3 players.

Of those 10 dead PC's:
1 PC died to pure bad luck (failed saving throw) during a fight with the Boss of a major multi-year story arc
1 PC died to cumulative general recklessness (spending more hit points than he needed to in encounters, until it finally caught up with him)
8 PC's died to splitting the party

In general, I think encounters should be tough but fair, with the possibility of those tough but fair encounters becoming grossly unfair if the players take actions that stack the odds against the players. I tend to have encounters of widely varying difficulty, from encounters that represent little threat, to encounters that should be bypassed lest the party end up in way over their heads. I expect players to learn to recognize the signs of enormous challenge and only pursue that challenge when they have a real and pressing need.

I don't like to kill PC's. I think dead PC's are bad for the game and usually a drag on the story, as they represent the death of in game knowledge (the new character hasn't in game experienced the story), a resulting loss of continuity, the death of story threads, and the failure to get a return on the investment in characterization. I also think it's not particularly fun for the players. I do not try to kill PC's, and I generally avoid flat 'save or die' stuff. But, I agree that there has to be some stakes up before achieving anything is fun. The only thing worse than killing PC's, is a game where the player's know that the PC's have perfect plot armor.

 

[Morrus]

Some should, some shouldn't. Sometimes the PCs should be allowed to feel like heroes and use all their abilities to mow down enemies; that's a great feeling! Other times, they should struggle and finally win by the skin of their teeth. That's a great feeling, too! Having the same feeling all the time makes it less great.

 

[fjw70]

I agree with the varying levels of difficulty.

I have had players complain about the difficulty of encounters when no one is even reduced 0 hp.

 

[Eltab]

A TPK-deadly encounter should be tied to something significant in the plot - facing AncientDragon in his lair to slay him or die trying, for example.

Most fights should be such that somebody can die if the PCs are dumb or slow to react, but most likely the PC group should be eager for a Restoring Rest after the fight is over.

Some fights - especially for higher-level groups - should be ridiculously simple now but composed of monsters they once saw as dangerous and difficult.

 

[greylurk]

I don't think in terms of encounters, I think in terms of obstacles. A particular obstacle may be ridiculously easy to overcome with a bribe, but incredibly difficult with combat. Neither of those are necessarily the "right" way of overcoming the obstacle, but both are options.

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