Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition

[AbdulAlhazred]

Another thing I think might have worked better in Essentials would have been to map utilities to skill choices. So, you choose a skill, and your utilities (skill powers, hopefully with some out-of-combat utility) just map to that. Stances, I suppose, would be another option or pre-built utility choices, or at-will utilities like pass-forward, lest uses need to be ticked off again, maybe?

So, no class-based utilities at all?

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, no class-based utilities at all?

Unless they could key off a skill and/or have some sort of non-combat application.

The idea being (1) just choose skills, don't have to worry about downstream 'build' and (2) some non-combat-applicable /something/.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Unless they could key off a skill and/or have some sort of non-combat application.

The idea being (1) just choose skills, don't have to worry about downstream 'build' and (2) some non-combat-applicable /something/.

So, you would simply have ALL the skill powers for each trained skill?

This is actually interestingly parallel to some of the things in my own design where I decided, for the sake of consistency, that there are no 'actions that aren't powers'. If you DO something, you are exercising a 'power' of some sort. Obviously most possible things characters can do aren't spelled out in some giant laundry list, that would be absurd. The upshot is that when you do something it follows the power rules. The other half being that MANY things ARE spelled out as powers. So that, where 4e just gives basically a laundry list of things that you can do with a skill, HoML has a list of powers. Most of these have either trained-only riders or some ARE trained only. They also fall into a category, 'basic power' that isn't metered, you just have any of them you meet the requirements to use. So, in effect what you're suggesting exists in this design. If you get trained in Thievery, you are now able to use the lockpicking power, and you can even burn a vitality point and do something special with it (I guess, I haven't actually written that, certainly climbing has some things like this).

 

[cavalier973]

What would happen if one allowed unlimited multiclassing: the player can pick the requisite number of AEDU powers from any class?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

What would happen if one allowed unlimited multiclassing: the player can pick the requisite number of AEDU powers from any class?

Well, technically they'd have to use a power swap feat each time. I'm not sure if you'd have to follow the chain of those for each MC or not, depends on the exact wording.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, technically they'd have to use a power swap feat each time.

Pretty sure that would mean limited by feats...

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, you would simply have ALL the skill powers for each trained skill?

At each level there is one, if at all possible, yeah. If there's more than one, whichever fits the class best.

This is actually interestingly parallel to some of the things in my own design where I decided, for the sake of consistency, that there are no 'actions that aren't powers'. If you DO something, you are exercising a 'power' of some sort. Obviously most possible things characters can do aren't spelled out in some giant laundry list, that would be absurd.

Absurd, but possibly hilarious.

The upshot is that when you do something it follows the power rules. The other half being that MANY things ARE spelled out as powers. So that, where 4e just gives basically a laundry list of things that you can do with a skill, HoML has a list of powers. Most of these have either trained-only riders or some ARE trained only. They also fall into a category, 'basic power' that isn't metered, you just have any of them you meet the requirements to use. So, in effect what you're suggesting exists in this design. If you get trained in Thievery, you are now able to use the lockpicking power, and you can even burn a vitality point and do something special with it (I guess, I haven't actually written that, certainly climbing has some things like this).

How 'bout that. Very cool. I could certainly see spending the vitality to open the lock instantly, for instance. Tap. Open.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

How 'bout that. Very cool. I could certainly see spending the vitality to open the lock instantly, for instance. Tap. Open.

Right, or make a tremendous leap, run across water, master a ritual simply by viewing the spot where it was cast, etc. And this ties back into the whole thing with decision points and no checks. You could simply have these things HAPPEN, you pays the price, you gets the goods.

 

[cavalier973]

Well, technically they'd have to use a power swap feat each time. I'm not sure if you'd have to follow the chain of those for each MC or not, depends on the exact wording.

I mean, you don't "create a fighter", you just pick a race, then pick powers from whatever class you want.

Is that doable?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I mean, you don't "create a fighter", you just pick a race, then pick powers from whatever class you want.

Is that doable?

It sounds moderately straightforward, except there are things that are determined by your class, like how many HS you have, your hit points, etc. Obviously you'd also lack any class features, which would be a slight issue.

In essence your character would be behind the curve, lacking any sort of damage increasing, leader, or defender capability. You could be a perfectly good controller, and given the wide range of powers available you'd no doubt be able to be pretty effective.

I think you'd find that you were basically giving up your class features in return for a few added feats. My guess is a hybrid will achieve as much but still get class features.