Pathfinder 1E High level Pathfinder game + large group. Need help with APL/CR

[LabyrinthLord718]

Hi all,

According to the CrB, if you have more than 6 players, the APL goes up by one.
I am running a group of 8 players, level 12 (96 total levels).

According to the CrB, an Average encounter would be CR 13. This seems rather low to me; should I be looking at the APL as higher than 13 due to the large group?

I have only run high level Pathfinder once before and it was the end of a campaign final boss fight. Since then I have been playing 5e which has very abstract CR values. So, going back to Pathfinder I want to push the party but not cause a TPK.

Would a single CR 16 creature cause a TPK?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Michael Silverbane]

The main problem that you'll face when running a party with 8 player characters is the sheer number of actions that the player character party can take. Especially when facing a single, "powerful" foe, eight player characters are going to have a massive advantage vis a vis the action economy.

Your best bet, for a party of eight PCs is to double the number of opponents that you would use for a four PC party. This will, of course, have its own problems (i.e. a massive number of combatants).

 

[Ezequielramone]

My advise is this: divide the group. I can't think in a reasonable way to have encounters with that amount of players. Maybe you can keep them focused on the game
But waiting 7 other players and monster to a7ct is a lot of focus. It is super hard, as far as I can tell, to play that way.
Having said that I'd will use, as a base this structure:
- one cr13 or two CR 12 (this is the main enemy)
- three to five CR 4 to 6
- a lot of CR 1 to 3

You can change and modify that according to your tales. But more or less eyeballing that is how I'd handle it.

And by far my best advise is: use monsters (specially minions) in a fun way, maybe they have a great supernatural ability, but throwing rocks from an edge is more interesting than a save or die ability.

 

[LabyrinthLord718]

Thank you. I am going to do just that! And someone on the Paizo forum helped with correctly calculating the XP budget, so this should be fine. Thanks!!

 

[PurpleDragonKnight]

I can't believe I'm saying this but... split the party?

 

[ccs]

Throw more foes at the party. About .75 - 1.5 foes per party member. Max out their HPs. Don't even roll initiative for the enemy, just assign them their max. That way they'll get a few attacks in & keep things interesting.
Don't get all hung up on the CR stuff. Just pick monsters that A) you think will provide a good/interesting fight, B) are thematically appropriate to whatever adventure your writing.

 

[PurpleDragonKnight]

Just plain double the amount of monsters if you're not splitting the partys with a Deus Ex...

 

[Tovec]

Would a single CR 16 creature cause a TPK?

Depends on the group, the monster, and how prepared they are. But I would NOT expect a CR 16 to TPK an average 4 man group of 12th level characters, let alone a 8 of them. It might be challenging, requiring their best spells or other abilities. Maybe last a little longer but no, I think they'll be fine.

For comparison I just wrapped up an amazing campaign wherein my PCs were fighting well above their level. The last session alone they went from level 16 to level 17 (using experience) with the sheer amount of high level combats they had - against very few opponents (one kept jumping around, don't ask). They were routinely fighting level 20s and I'm talking about min-maxed 20s (the end of the game after all). Oh and did I mention there were only TWO players. If it had been eight of them I would have needed a level 30 to give them the same sort of challenge.

Now, that's a grueling fight for the end of the game, but I would say try out the 16 and see how well the party handles it. At least then you'll have more of a baseline. Just keep in mind not all CR 16s are actually going to be the same sort of challenge for your players.

 

[LabyrinthLord718]

Thanks for the first-hand experience!

 

[Tovec]

So, did you give it a go? How did it turn out?