D&D 5E What would you miss about 5E if you were playing AD&D?

Semi-idle thought experiment: if you were playing AD&D as a player (not a DM), what would you miss about 5E? What bits would you think worth keeping or importing?

For me, I like the 5E fighter and the number of combat options he has. Some of the 5E fighter actions like Disarm have analogues in AD&D (Complete Fighter's Handbook), but some of them don't. In particular, the way that grappling/shoving works in 5E is pretty beautiful for fighters--a 6th level fighter can turn a fight with an Earth Elemental from a deadly struggle into something approaching simplicity just by leveraging his Athletics training. I would want the game to have Prone as a disadvantageous condition, and a way for a fighter to reliably or semi-reliably exploit it, although I don't necessarily need it to be as trivially easy as it is in 5E. (E.g. Prone gives a -4 to hit and +4 to be hit, and attack rolls/saving throws take place on a 2d10 bell curve instead of d20. Ability contests are run by comparing margins of success on a 3d6 roll; for grappling it's a Strength contest, and weapon proficiency in wrestling gives you a +2 on wrestling contests. That replicates basically the same dynamics as 5E when it comes to tanky fighters wrestling enemies into submission.)

I would also miss the a beauty of Sharpshooter and fighters who do tons of damage with arrows; but I'm willing to give that up in the name of a more classic, harder game. D&D as GURPS (complete with lots of Rapid Shots and Vital Shots) is just too easy.

I would miss reaction spells like Shield and Absorb Elements; but not enough to want to import them. The AD&D wizard paradigm is "think ahead" (Stoneskin/Ironskin/Contingency), not "react on the fly" (Shield/Absorb Elements). I would sort of miss Counterspell though--it's a nice bit of fiction. I'm not sure how to accomodate Counterspell in the AD&D paradigm.

I might miss the saving throw system. I've always been kind of fuzzy on the reasons why rods/staves/wands get treated differently from spells, in the fiction. On the other hand, I'm often also fuzzy on why e.g. getting out of a Forcecage involves a Charisma save, or why exactly a Dexterity saving throw to protect you from Fireball does not cost movement or a reaction or leave you prone (i.e. apparently you're not doing any of the things you'd think you were doing to protect yourself from the Fireball). Both systems have their warts from a logical perspective so it might be a wash.

That's all I can really think of that I'd miss. There are things I like about 5E, but aside from fighters, Counterspell, and maybe ability-centric saving throws, I can't think of anything else that I like better in 5E than in AD&D. (I'm fine with THAC0, for example. In some ways it's easier to deal with than ascending AC, especially in large combats.)

If you were me, what would YOU be missing?
 

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Salamandyr

Adventurer
Sensible grappling rules.

A fairly intuitive resolution system (even if I think the math is off).

6 second rounds

1st level thieves that can actually do their jobs.
 

The skill system. Especially with backgrounds.

Coherent level progression and simple, flexible multiclassing. Corollary: The lack of dead levels.

Every class except the wizard (which is about the same in my opinion), but especially rogues, bards, and monks.

Out-of-combat healing. I could stand for a game to be a little grittier than 5E with its very generous long rests, but 2E's cleric-as-healbot-or-else-1-hp-per-day was painful.

Not needing a +n weapon to hurt almost every monster above a certain level, and other use-magic-to-solve-this assumptions.

General ease of use. RPG writers have simply gotten better at putting together rulebooks over the years.

And most importantly, my friends, who want to play 5E and not 2E.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I'd miss cantrips and spell preparation, I think I'd have to bring them all in if I was moving to an earlier edition. The cantrips wouldn't have to scale, I could keep them the same damage as a bow or crossbow. I'd probably run with spell preparation or ACKS' spell repertoire if I went back.

Sent from my SM-G925I using EN World mobile app
 

S'mon

Legend
I think the Proficiency Bonus system, the death/dying system, and the fast healing. I like systems that discourage whiffing in combat so Bounded Accuracy is good, and I like not killing PCs randomly too often so the death system is good.
 

aco175

Legend
I like the slow progression of levels in that "sweet spot", levels 3-10. I like that the early levels go by fast and you get cool powers soon. I think new players like the advancement and new powers after the first night of play and a couple weeks later, or sooner. Players that like to try options can see how the class and options are working after a few weeks and see if they enjoy the concept.

One of the things I miss from 4e is the spellcasters always rolling to hit. As a player I like to roll the dice and see if I hit. The saves would need to be tweaked to make it happen. I never liked it when on my turn all I do is say to the DM to make a save and not get to roll.
 

I think the Proficiency Bonus system, the death/dying system, and the fast healing. I like systems that discourage whiffing in combat so Bounded Accuracy is good, and I like not killing PCs randomly too often so the death system is good.

N.b. AD&D combat is if anything less whiffy (more accurate) than 5E combat. "Bounded Accuracy" is just a fancy name for "throwing out 3E's unbounded modifiers," but AD&D ACs have always been restricted to a narrow range.
 

S'mon

Legend
N.b. AD&D combat is if anything less whiffy (more accurate) than 5E combat. "Bounded Accuracy" is just a fancy name for "throwing out 3E's unbounded modifiers," but AD&D ACs have always been restricted to a narrow range.

"NB?" LOL :p

Low level AD&D PCs miss much more (except possibly with UA x2 weapon spec). High level miss somewhat less. AC range is similar 20-point range in both systems (AC 10 to -10 vs AC 10 to 30), but AD&D gives Fighters a 16 point range in attack ability (THAC0 20 to THAC0 4) before mods, compared to 5e's 4 point range (PB +2 to PB +6).
 

It's a 20 point range actually (20th level fighter has a THAC0 of 1, not 4). But the thought occurs to me that it's not right of me to consider only fighters. A high-level Fighter will hit more often than the equivalent 5E PC, but a high-level Priest, Rogue or Wizard will indeed hit that AC -5 Pit Fiend far less frequently than the equivalent 5E PC would hit the equivalent 5E AC 19 Pit Fiend. For clerics/rogues/wizards, I see your point.

Acknowledged that at low levels (1st-4th or so), the fact that 5E monsters have lower AC and 5E PCs have higher ability score bonuses and +2 to hit does make a big difference in relative hit rates.
 


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