D&D 5E How much extra starting HP for PCs in a Death at 0 HP Variant?

[mflayermonk]

I plan on running a 6-session campaign with a death at 0 hp variant.
I need an idea of how much additional hp to award starting characters.

I've run a few playtests for 4 players and the number I've got is +50 starting hp.

Anyone have any experience with this how much extra hp do you award?
Do you award a large block to start with or do you do something like double hp per level?

 

[ccs]

I wouldn't add any additional HPs. Just max HP per die + con bonus. We used to play a lot of BECMI & 1e like this.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Yeah. Why would you add more? If you want to make the game more survivable, what is the point in removing death saves? I'm curious about the logic here.

 

[Harzel]

I plan on running a 6-session campaign with a death at 0 hp variant.
I need an idea of how much additional hp to award starting characters.

I've run a few playtests for 4 players and the number I've got is +50 starting hp.

Anyone have any experience with this how much extra hp do you award?
Do you award a large block to start with or do you do something like double hp per level?

As others have alluded to, it is not clear what you are trying to accomplish. Are the PCs starting at level 1? 50 HP seems like a very large number in any case.

 

[mflayermonk]

Yeah. Why would you add more? If you want to make the game more survivable, what is the point in removing death saves? I'm curious about the logic here.

The death saves mechanic doesn't match well with the fiction of the setting.

 

[Caliban]

How about instead of extra HP, give every PC something like the Lvl 11 Barbarian ability "Relentless Rage" - everytime they would be dropped to 0 HP, make a DC 10 Con save to stay at 1 HP instead, with the DC increasing by 1 every time they make the save.

 

[Satyrn]

I plan on running a 6-session campaign with a death at 0 hp variant.
I need an idea of how much additional hp to award starting characters.

I've run a few playtests for 4 players and the number I've got is +50 starting hp.

Anyone have any experience with this how much extra hp do you award?
Do you award a large block to start with or do you do something like double hp per level?

That's an interesting idea, and I can rather see why you'd do it. But I've never done this, nor seen it done, so I can't help you.

 

[hastur_nz]

I think that whatever value you add, it won't necessarily change player behaviour; some people just run ahead at full speed until they fall down (dead or dying). Sure, you might find some players become more cautious, and avoid anything that puts them in danger of dying, but even then a lot of people will only learn the hard way, and some never learn...

After all once upon a time in D&D a Wizard started with 1d4 hp, and died at 0; a Fighter started with 1d10 hp, maybe a Con bonus, and died at 0 hp. Did those players behave with great conservatism, only engaging in lethal combat as a last resort, or did they charge in swords and spells flying? In my recollection, when I was a kid playing Basic and AD&D, my players pretty much charged in like they were indestructible, and I encouraged that by fudging a lot of stuff. Later, we added more hp, and it did nothing to fundamentally change the way my players approached the game.

I think if you take away the "dying" mechanic, to "actually you are dead", you still need some way of showing the players "hey, you are going to be dead soon". Adding X hit points to the base, doesn't mean they will pay any more attention and die less, unless the game actually enforces some kind of explicit "check point" that forces the player to make a decision on whether to carry on or seek help. The 5e dying mechanic, isn't perfect, but it at least forces the player to recognise that their PC is nearly dead (it also forces them to do nothing, but hey, it's not perfect).

So I think rather than just add X hp to the base, you also need to add some kind of check-point, like Bloodied was in 4e, that says to everyone "hey, from here you're getting close to dead dead". At which point you need to decide what it is, as obviously it can't be falling down unconcious (or you've just re-created the existing 5e rules). But I think you need something, that has an in-game impact, otherwise you've just given the players a lager pool of hp, but exactly how they interpret those and what they do about it, will vary wildly. For example, someone who has 20 hp, vs someone who has 5 hp - will they approach the game any differently?

 

[mflayermonk]

I think that whatever value you add, it won't necessarily change player behaviour; some people just run ahead at full speed until they fall down (dead or dying). Sure, you might find some players become more cautious, and avoid anything that puts them in danger of dying, but even then a lot of people will only learn the hard way, and some never learn...

No kidding.

This Death at 0 variant is more about highlighting a setting (the players chose to visit) than increasing challenge. The death saves just don't match the setting fiction.

 

[LordEntrails]

I agree with others, what are you trying to get at?

The 'dying mechanic doesn't fit into your settings fiction'... OK, but what fits the fiction? That will tell you what you need to do.

Just adding HP to keep players alive doesn't really accomplish anything (and 50HP means you are going to be completely changing the encounter balance). And if you've removed the death mechanic now you have superheroes that can go full-tilt until they are suddenly dead.

I mean, what's the difference between 50hp and 1? nothing. Between 1 and 0? Death. That's a big change for a little step.