Armor class vs damage reduction for static Hit Points

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Folks I am looking for ideas.

I am making a simple 2d6 game mechanic system that combines Classic
Traveller with OD&D, which player rolls 2d6 for STR, CON, DEX, INT,
WIS and CHR (looks familiar).

Damage (HP) will be static – STR + CON + WIS = HP total

Due to the latter, I am very torn – create a traditional Armor Class,
which is a hit penalty or have Armor Reduces Damage by a specific factor with a total number of Hit Points absorbed.

-= What I have so far =-
Leather = 1pt damage
Leather + shield = 2pt damage
Chain = 2pt damage
Chain + shield = 3pt damage
Plate = 3pt damage
Plate + shield = 4pt damage

This way, the use of a shield will step up armor by one category, but
the character loses the use of two hands. Also, it will be easy to
scale, since all weapons will deal 1d6 points of damage.

How does one pair damage reduction to damage dealt?



Target number to do anything is 8+ (again Classic Traveller); however,
I am not sure how I would limit or apply penalties to armor.


NOTE – I have tried converting d20 and traditional armor AC to 2d6
rolls. However, the step was not very good. For every +/- 3 on D20,
translated to +/- 1 on 2d6. Due to the latter, it was not very
intuitive.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

You probably don't want to introduce large penalties to hit while you're rolling 2d6 for resolution. Just going by what you have, plate+shield would give a -4 to hit, so they'd effectively need to roll a 12 on 2d6 in order to do damage. That's just out of line.

Of course, four points of damage reduction when you're rolling 1d6 for damage also means that there's a 50% chance that a hit does nothing. That doesn't seem right either.

I recommend re-working your numbers. Increase damage and HP, so damage reduction fits into it, or change the resolution system to better accommodate penalties.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I like your -4 hit idea with Plate+Shield; however, that does seem to be in-line with what I want. I am still torn to do levels or skills; however, if for example Skill of 5 then that would be the best level of skill. If 2d6 average is 7, then that would be in-line.

"The great sword fighter with a skill of +5 will hit more often then not against someone in Plate+Shield." However, you are right - a simple person with a Skill level of +1 will need to roll 11+ to hit someone in Plate+shield.

 

[aramis erak]

I would suggest using a roll to penetrate, instead of an AC adjustment to hit. Also, a DR that applies even whence penetrated.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I would suggest using a roll to penetrate, instead of an AC adjustment to hit. Also, a DR that applies even whence penetrated.

I am not following... and I due apologize. Can you give an example?

Thank you

 

[aramis erak]

I am not following... and I due apologize. Can you give an example?

Thank you

So roll to hit. On hit, roll 2d to penetrate the armor. Say, Plate is AV 6, so roll 2d for 6+. On a failure to penetrate it stops 5 damage, on a success, stops the whole hit.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

So roll to hit. On hit, roll 2d to penetrate the armor. Say, Plate is AV 6, so roll 2d for 6+. On a failure to penetrate it stops 5 damage, on a success, stops the whole hit.

Oh... that sounds neat... But let me see if I have it right.

Step 1 - roll to hit 8+ (rolled a 9 so HIT)
Step 2 - roll armor penetrating results

Question - what should I base my AV value and how much damage should it reduce? I just never seen anything like this... is there any games that use this method?

Why on a failure does it block 5 points, but on a success it blocks the full 6?

Does that mean if I want leather armor that block say like 3 points of damage - it should be 3+ and failures is blocking 2 and success blocks 3?

thank you so much for the idea.

 

[aramis erak]

Oh... that sounds neat... But let me see if I have it right.

Step 1 - roll to hit 8+ (rolled a 9 so HIT)
Step 2 - roll armor penetrating results

Question - what should I base my AV value and how much damage should it reduce? I just never seen anything like this... is there any games that use this method?

Why on a failure does it block 5 points, but on a success it blocks the full 6?

Does that mean if I want leather armor that block say like 3 points of damage - it should be 3+ and failures is blocking 2 and success blocks 3?

thank you so much for the idea.

Several do parts of this. One does it all:
GURPS: Roll to hit (3d6 for skill or less), Roll Passive Defense (which is based upon the armor plus a defensive skill), and a fixed DR applied against rolled damage. PD is relatively rare for many genres; DR is common. I've seen PD for melee hit 15 or less (on 3d6) for expert shield guy using a magical shield...

Dragon Warriors: Roll to hit, then roll for penetration with a die specified by the weapon against a fixed Armor rating. Damage is fixed by weapon, and while there is a damage reduction, it's not common.

WFRP1E: some weapons and armors (usually magical ones) give a bonus to the defense rolls (Dodge or Parry)

Early Palladium games have two to-hit numbers on one roll - 5+ hits, but AR or more bypasses SDC, and the effective damage reduction is 0; rolls of <AR but above 5 damage the armor, not the wearer.

I'd suggest that realistic metal plate armor is going to deflect about 1/3 of blows... reasonable half-plate would be 8+... but bigger weapons should get +1, and smaller –1, daggers -2. I'd look to older editions of RuneQuest for suitable damage reductions... and damages. The total HP is similar to yours.

 

[GMMichael]

It might help to step out of the rules and try pairing some design ideas together. Or ask some questions...

Do you want combat to be smooth or crunchy? (Math or minimal math?)
How invulnerable is someone in plate armor?
What is "damage?"
Does a shield prevent damage? Does it make an attacker less effective?
What are the odds that anyone scores a hit?
What is a "hit?"

You might be able to stop at the first question though, since AC would be Smooth and Damage Reduction would be Crunchy.

Levels or skills: smooth or crunchy? Since a "level," I'm assuming, is just auto-application of skills, it would be the Smooth answer.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I want something simple and smooth; however, I want to keep all damage at 1d6. This will help with creating and a uniform system, which will have some randomness but an average of 3.5.

However, I am finding it hard to (option 1) determine AC values, or go (option 2) with damage reduction, and determine what damage reduction values should be.

What I don't want to do... is say "this weapon gets a +1, and this weapon gets a -1.... etc) I want to build more of an environment that says... "The passage way is too small to use your spear or two-handed sword).

However, only expectation is two-handed weapons get to roll (2d6 keep the highest).