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D&D 5E Feats: Do they stifle creativity and reduce options?

Sure, and that's probably why the rules say "Your DM will tell you how you can earn Inspiration in the game." That way a player can plan accordingly. A DM that is sufficiently explicit and consistent will be as good in my view as a feat written in a book.

I have yet to find a DM that is consistent about awarding Inspiration. I've played 5 games under 5 DMs in the last week (20 hours of play, probably 28 different players) and had one DM give one Inspiration to one player in that sample. The trouble with DM's rewarding players with Inspiration is that, by and large, they don't.
 

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I have yet to find a DM that is consistent about awarding Inspiration. I've played 5 games under 5 DMs in the last week (20 hours of play, probably 28 different players) and had one DM give one Inspiration to one player in that sample. The trouble with DM's rewarding players with Inspiration is that, by and large, they don't.

Agreed, Inspiration as written is an epic failure. No DM ever does it.

Far better would be a system where every player gets an Inspiration die that they can award to another player when he/she does something cool. Of course the "cool" would have to be DM approved just to make sure the players dont just give each other Inspiration.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I have yet to find a DM that is consistent about awarding Inspiration. I've played 5 games under 5 DMs in the last week (20 hours of play, probably 28 different players) and had one DM give one Inspiration to one player in that sample. The trouble with DM's rewarding players with Inspiration is that, by and large, they don't.

Yeah, some folks are encouraging me to put up a thread about this issue. The way I handle it is the players claim it themselves to a limit of one Inspiration per category per session. So if @Fast Jimmy's minotaur rogue Bottom Sirloin immediately agrees to undertake a quest or knuckle under to a threat from an NPC/monster, for example, he can claim Inspiration for his trait "I will always say yes, I am submissive to any authority." If he wants Inspiration later on that session, he has to play to his ideal, bond, or flaw since the trait was already claimed.

In this method, the players know what they have to do to claim Inspiration, making it a fairly reliable resource. (I say "fairly" because some situations don't suggest them coming up at that moment.) I don't have to remember to do it or try to keep track of anything. It also incentivizes players to portray all the established characteristics per session. Five players all doing that makes for some great scenes. Hands down, of all the approaches I use while DMing, this is the one that I get the best feedback for.

This has all been a bit of a tangent, stemming from a claim that, without feats that confer a mechanical benefit, players have no incentive to do certain things. I reject that claim in games where DMs use Inspiration consistently.
 

5ekyu

Hero
"If you’re not using Feats, then your first two ASIs aren’t actually decision points because there’s a “right” choice."

Sorry but it seems nonsensical to be trying to reasonably discuss the number of decision points and also choose to dismiss ones where *after you have decided what you want** there is a "right choice."

Just like *after i decide to go for abc* there is a *right choice* of putting you ASI into max primary stat, there will be a *right choice* between sharpshooter and ASI as well once you decide you prefer DEF.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Agreed, Inspiration as written is an epic failure. No DM ever does it.

Far better would be a system where every player gets an Inspiration die that they can award to another player when he/she does something cool. Of course the "cool" would have to be DM approved just to make sure the players dont just give each other Inspiration.

Far better in my view is for DMs to do what the rules already tell us to do: "Your DM will tell you how you can earn Inspiration in the game." Then players can go and do that.

I wouldn't even object to Paul Farquhar's criteria as long as it was made clear what kind of inspiring speech I'd have to portray to earn Inspiration, even though we have different ideas of what the word "roleplaying" means.
 

Nevvur

Explorer
This seems pretty emblematic of a concern you have in every case, so I will only address it once, but know that it applies in every symmetrical case: you fear restricting extemporaneous behavior, because you have interpreted that "since X allows Y, it must be the case that not having X disallows Y." What part of the text leads you to believe this is the case?

Just wanted to hone in on this part.

It's not a matter of finding support for this position in the text (which, as you imply, does not exist), it's also about balance and intrusions on design space. For instance, if anyone can disarm an opponent, the battlemaster's disarm maneuver feels less special. It certainly seems like disarming an opponent should be an option for any combatant, but allowing it devalues the fighter.

In the same sense, if players can do feat-like actions without having the feat, you devalue the feat. At least, that's a perspective espoused by some people. I don't buy into it much. I allow people to do several feat-like actions, but there's usually a penalty involved that a person with the feat wouldn't suffer.

--

An aside (not to you specifically, Ezekiel), I expect creativity to emerge more through interesting character backgrounds and game play than game settings like feats/no-feats and filling out a character sheet.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Just wanted to hone in on this part.

It's not a matter of finding support for this position in the text (which, as you imply, does not exist), it's also about balance and intrusions on design space. For instance, if anyone can disarm an opponent, the battlemaster's disarm maneuver feels less special. It certainly seems like disarming an opponent should be an option for any combatant, but allowing it devalues the fighter.

I really, really don't think it does. The only way you get to this point is if the player assumes an exclusive right to certain actions. Without that assumption, there is nothing to "devalue." And with it, you have assumed a very severe and likely impossible standard, which literally does say "no one can EVER improvise something like my character! That's STEALING my character!"

Where does this "I *exclusively* own the mechanics of my character" thing come from? It's both fundamentally silly, and overtly contradictory to the goals expressed by the game and literally every DM I've ever actually spoken to. So from whence does it come? And why is it that, despite the mortal fear of it (which seems to drive many good DMs to excessive, even draconian limitations on their players), I've *never* seen it actually happen in play, even in games where it is allegedly a deeply-rooted flaw e.g. 3e/4e?

Balance considerations don't even enter into it. The feat (as noted) *guarantees* access, which is soft-balanced against the combined issues of justification and rolling--again, the "DM needs a reason to say no to a feat, or yes without one." That doesn't mean it needs to be hard in either case. Of course, DMs being human, it takes practice and caution to thread the needle between "discouraging improvisation" and "being permissive." I tend to lean toward the latter; I find most DMs lean the opposite way out of *fear* of permissivity, and then can't understand why people at their tables stop trying. But balance is totally achieveable in this.

In the same sense, if players can do feat-like actions without having the feat, you devalue the feat. At least, that's a perspective espoused by some people. I don't buy into it much. I allow people to do several feat-like actions, but there's usually a penalty involved that a person with the feat wouldn't suffer.

Right; lack of automatic access, and needing to work/justify ARE the penalty, or determine what it is. From them, things arise like "okay, you are familiar enough with her voice to try to imitate it, but she's a Dragonborn and you aren't. How do you overcome the differences in physiology?" If I don't like the answer? I may literally just say they know they can't pull it off well enough to pass muster unless they're desperate. (I hate hate hate the false hope of "I'll let you roll but you need 18+ to succeed.") If it's barely enough, a paper-thin plan but a plan nonetheless, roll with a penalty (or disad, though I despise how 5e defaults to that). If it's a good plan, you work hard or spend resources? Sure, roll it. And, as noted, I've never once seen, neither as player nor in my brief experience as DM, even ONE player who got even a little upset at this kind of thing. (Besides, if the Actor isn't prevented from doing it herself, why is the non-Actor trying? The examples become more and more artificial the more I examine them.)

An aside (not to you specifically, Ezekiel), I expect creativity to emerge more through interesting character backgrounds and game play than game settings like feats/no-feats and filling out a character sheet.

This strikes me as another overblown fear (of players never thinking beyond numbers; it's a nicer/semi-polite way of saying, "I want roleplaying not rollplaying," IMO), but that's a topic all its own.
 
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Yunru

Banned
Banned
I have yet to find a DM that is consistent about awarding Inspiration. I've played 5 games under 5 DMs in the last week (20 hours of play, probably 28 different players) and had one DM give one Inspiration to one player in that sample. The trouble with DM's rewarding players with Inspiration is that, by and large, they don't.

I often forget that it exists. So now I hand out tokens that can be redeemed for Inspiration. Seeing the pile of tokens sat in front of me is a good reminder.
 

I agree. However a feat with tangible benefits allows a player who is not themselves comfortable with making inspiring speeches in play and hence not likely to earn Inspiration, able to play a heroic and inspiring PC and have their stirring speeches have some sort of game impact.

Funny. When I play Bards, my DM much prefer that I say that I sing rather then break out into sing irl.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
It's not a matter of finding support for this position in the text (which, as you imply, does not exist), it's also about balance and intrusions on design space. For instance, if anyone can disarm an opponent, the battlemaster's disarm maneuver feels less special. It certainly seems like disarming an opponent should be an option for any combatant, but allowing it devalues the fighter.

This might just be a case of picking a bad example, but this stood out to me.
The battlemaster gets to do it as part of an attack. Another character trying would at best get to do it in place of an attack (more likely as an action).
 

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