Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[GreenTengu]

Mearls is clearly just an idiot.

You cannot make a functioning Warlord as a Fighter subclass because what variation one can squeeze out of a subclass is never going to allow you to make something that functions as a support class as well as a Cleric or a Bard.

The main class of Fighter already dictates so much of what the class does too that no matter what you make out of it-- it is ultimately just going to be better or worse at being the melee tank that the class dictates anyone playing it, regardless of their subclass, is ultimately going to be.

Personally I think the whole non-magic support role is ridiculous. I also think non-magic healing is silly. It's like wanting to be a brain surgeon without surgical tools. "I don't need your science crutch! I can fix his brain with my bare hands and some soothing words!"

Magic is what allows dragons to fly. Magic is not a crutch, it is the science of D&D. It is the physics of Faerun.

Instead of assault rifles, kevlar armor and night vision googles, D&D fighters have magic swords, rings of protection and goggles of night. Instead of calling in air strikes you have flying wizards throwing fireballs. If someone goes down, instead of a medic using modern medicine to stabilize them before calling for an evac, you have a paladin laying on hands.

Don't tell me that instead of a modern medic you can just have your grizzled sergeant yell at you to 'walk it off' and it is just as good.

Non-magic rangers are equally ridiculous. Why wouldn't they use magic? It would be like refusing to use a compass to tell direction "because that's cheating". The ultimate survivors would use every tool at their disposal, and magic is just one of those tools.

Ultimately I would say if you want to run a non-magic game, D&D is not the system you should be using.

This is easy enough to resolve...
Warlords do use magic. They use a mix of divine and psionic magic that harnesses the power of human(oid) mind and soul in order to get others to overcome the limitations they place upon themselves, iron their will, infuse their bodies with speed and strength and enlighten their hearts with courage.

Everyone in the D&D world is capable of magic, the Warlord (or whatever other name it could have) just brings out the magic people didn't know they had within them.

Seriously-- why does hacking to death a certain number of other living creatures mean you can be hacked at so much more? Surely that alone has to be some kind of insane magic. Someone is a 10th level fighter, so I need to make the same "cut off his head" attack that killed the 1st level fighter outright and hit with it just exactly the same and roll exactly the same on the damage 5 times before he dies? That is what you are stating by insisting that hit points relate directly to meat. So clearly there is some sort of super wonkiness happening in your world with all creatures that inhabit it.

Which is putting aside that any number of other abilities might just be giving people situational advantages by calling out openings in the enemy's formations and battle styles that probably aren't obvious from other vantage points.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think you are exaggerating the difficulties a bit. I don't know much about 4e classes, but you could use some of the fighter's existing resources: Action Surge, extra attacks, Indomitable to fuel the Warlord abilities, thus preventing the player from doing fighter stuff if they do warlord stuff.

And dragon sorcerer gets +1 hp per hd, why not -1 hp per hd?

 

[Remathilis]

Also, I like modern settings where most characters lack magic. I need a nonmagical tactician aka warlord with effective healing to make this kind of setting work optimally.

Well, considering the game is called "Dungeons & Dragons" and not "Generic Fantasy Simulator d20", I think a modern setting where characters lack magic should use its own system where its own considerations should be into account. This is like saying some "I like modern settings, so the PHB should have rules for firearms and motor vehicles".

Not saying it should disqualify a warlord from existing, but the notion its needed because some people don't play D&D with its expected tropes is basically a non-issue.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Not saying it should disqualify a warlord from existing, but the notion its needed because some people don't play D&D with its expected tropes is basically a non-issue.

I concur that reasoning is bizarre, but it's trivially easy to come up with a Warlord with "non-magical" healing (as pointed out, as much ANYTHING is "non-magical" in D&D, which is to say "pretty magical, just not actually a magic spell), and I am rather astonished people are still acting like this is some sort of dilemma or difficulty. In 2018. I'm particularly astonished Mearls is.

Again, if anyone is really stressed and sweating about the concept, just get them to burn HD with a bonus for permanent heals. That way they are burning something that is a real resource specific to the character they're affecting, no more "out of thin air" than anything else. They could also grant a bunch of temporary HP which are frequently granted in "non-magical" ways. Combination of the two could make them a potent but different healer.

How is this hard? I ask because I am so mystified generally, not to ask you specifically.

I think you are exaggerating the difficulties a bit. I don't know much about 4e classes, but you could use some of the fighter's existing resources: Action Surge, extra attacks, Indomitable to fuel the Warlord abilities, thus preventing the player from doing fighter stuff if they do warlord stuff.

And dragon sorcerer gets +1 hp per hd, why not -1 hp per hd?

Bonus and penalties aren't interchangeable in 5E, and 5E shies away from penalties, with good reason.

Fueling abilities with other actual abilities, rather than genuine resources is also some pretty scrubby and unnecessary design, whether you're doing it or WotC is. Extra attacks aren't a resource at all, not even arguably, and suggesting they are indicates a basic misunderstanding of the action-economy of 5E, I'd suggest.

It would be vastly cleaner and more efficient to simply come up with a new class. It doesn't matter one tiny bit if the theme is somewhat similar to an existing subclass (Battlemaster). If it did, we wouldn't have, for example, the excellent Scout, a Rogue subclass which is, to all intents and purposes, a take on Ranger (a far worse sin than merely resembling a subclass!).

 

[Lord Twig]

If you're claiming this, you're actually illustrating why "non-magical" Warlords are completely valid, ironically enough (I mean I assume that wasn't your intention).

How so? Because you're illustrating the difference between "magic" and magic.

Maybe a dragon does fly in D&D because of "magic", but it does not fly because of magic. You cast dispel magic on a dragon, or flies through an anti-magic zone or whatever, and it just keeps on trucking. Is it realistic in a real-world sense? Obviously not, but as you say, the underlying physics of D&D are magical in a sense. Dragons couldn't fly, probably could barely move around IRL, but in it's not because they are casting spells or outwardly using magic in D&D that they can, or even that magic is coursing through their veins (note many other "impossible" things can fly in D&D too) - it's because they can.

Likewise with Warlords in D&D. Yes, maybe there is some underlying "magic" to the D&D world, that, despite not closing the wound, despite not making a beautiful glow, despite not involving an incantation or components or whatever, a Warlord can increase the remaining HP of a character, get them to keep fighting. That is indeed absolutely analogous to the "magic" which means a dragon can fly despite not working with RL laws of aerodynamics and so on (first person to mention bumble bees has to buy us all a beer). But it's very different to the outward facing, obvious magic that a wizard or cleric uses, and somewhat similar to the "magic" that allows a bard to increase how much everyone heals on a short rest, or the Second Wind available to Fighters (which is obvious non-magical healing but arguably "magical" in the sense you are describing).

I mean, re: Mearls, it's always been an issue that, like a number of game designers, and even some writers, even some very successful ones (looking at you, George Lucas), he doesn't really understand his own premises in some cases, and seemingly isn't capable of taking on board explanations from other people (which I find weird but Mearls has consistently shown an inability to even process what people are saying on stuff like this - and it's not uncommon to find people who just can't process certain ideas). This seems to me to be pretty easy stuff.

Even if you really want to be difficult about it you could just allow Warlords to trigger HD usage with massive bonuses and call it an adrenaline surge or something - maybe also let them grant HD on a similar basis. Is that "magical"? Perhaps. But it's not magic.

Actually, I think we agree!

If it was explicit that the Warlord's healing and inspirational abilities worked as innate, low-level magic, I would be fine with it. We already have the Bardic Inspiration which enhances the abilities of a teammate. And from the PHB, p51 it says, "In the worlds of D&D, words and music are not just vibrations of air, but vocalizations with power all their own. The bard is a master of song, speech, and the magic they contain." So if you had a sentence like that for the Warlord I think resistance to it would fade quite a bit.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Actually, I think we agree!

If it was explicit that the Warlord's healing and inspirational abilities worked as innate, low-level magic, I would be fine with it. We already have the Bardic Inspiration which enhances the abilities of a teammate. And from the PHB, p51 it says, "In the worlds of D&D, words and music are not just vibrations of air, but vocalizations with power all their own. The bard is a master of song, speech, and the magic they contain." So if you had a sentence like that for the Warlord I think resistance to it would fade quite a bit.

Indeed, good quote, and in fact I'm impressed with how clear the PHB is there on the inherent magic of the D&D world. A shout is not just a shout, in D&D, not necessarily (in fact, not ever, but to varying degrees).

What people object to isn't really "magic" in that sense, it's magic in the sense of magic spells or anything resembles a magic spell. But it's easy to escape those latter two. You could be really indirect and never use the word "magic" and still make it clear Warlords were just part of the magical world of D&D. I don't think you need to be explicit, like, calling it magic, just choose your language carefully (I know they have writers capable of this, they just need designers who aren't trapped inside their own mental boxes, which, unfortunately, Mearls is).

I seem to recall the 3.XE predecessor of the Warlord had some sort of quasi-magical deal going on without ever being explicitly magic, but I can't remember very well.

 

[Lord Twig]

I realise that many people struggle with the notion but non magical healing is as much pulling yourself together, summoning an Adrenaline rush, and ignoring the pain of those cuts, bruises, and strains as it is sealing up those wounds permanently.

I view barbarian damage resistance as brawling through the pain and ignoring broken bones rather than skin getting tougher.

It is not as explicit as the bard, but the barbarian does mention "a berserk state where rage takes over, giving them superhuman strength and resilience." So superhuman, as in more than is physically possible by a mundane human. Again, why can barbarians soak up punishment and resist sword blows that shouldn't be possible? For the same reason dragons can fly in an anti-magic zone. It is magical physics.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Extra attacks aren't a resource at all, not even arguably, and suggesting they are indicates a basic misunderstanding of the action-economy of 5E, I'd suggest.

It would be vastly cleaner and more efficient to simply come up with a new class.

There are several class features that already use "attacks" as a resource: Commander's Strike, commanding a ranger companion, pact of the chain familiar attacks).

It might be "cleaner", but remember, the Warlord comes from the despised-by-many 4e. Making it a full class (and the first official new full class at that) would give the impression of backsliding. I.e. not a good move from the point of view of commercial politics. Slipping it in as a subclass would be a concession to those few strange people who actually liked 4e that would not anger those who didn't.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think you are exaggerating the difficulties a bit. I don't know much about 4e classes, but you could use some of the fighter's existing resources: Action Surge, extra attacks, Indomitable to fuel the Warlord abilities, thus preventing the player from doing fighter stuff if they do warlord stuff.

And dragon sorcerer gets +1 hp per hd, why not -1 hp per hd?

In recent UAs we've seen class expending resources in new ways, like the Spore Druid or Mike's idea of using Barbarian rages for something else. A martiall support class built as a fighter archetype can use figthers ressouces, like the Banneret did, but a little more ''leader-y''; while the Banneret could use its ressources and allow some players to also benefit from it, the new archetype could make the fighter sacrifice his benefits from the feature to let more players benefit from it. Something like this:

Spur to Action: at lvl X, you can use your Action Surge feature to allow your companions to storm the battlefield. Any extra attack Action Surge would normally grant to you can instead be made by one willing character of your choice. You cant benefit from those attack yourself.

Turn the Tide: at lvl Y, when you find a split second to take your breath, you can quickly signal your companions to do the it instead. When you use Second Wind, you can forgo healing yourself to grant 1+Int allies the chance to spend HD up to your level? Cha/Int mod?

Bastion of Hope: at lvl Z, as long as your Indomitable features isnt spent, allies gain Advantage in Con, Wis and Cha saves.

Indomitable Presence: at lvl W, you can expend you Indomitable feature to allow an ally to re-roll a social check.

 

[mellored]

3.5 used the term "extraordinary" for special things that where specifically not "magic".

I see no reason 5e can't also use that term.