Dark Sun

[Dispater]

Thing is, the whole setting is based around the Sorcerer Kings being defilers. There are whole works dedicated to the lore around the SK's. If you get that bit wrong, you don't really stay true to the spirit of DS. It's that one piece of lore you really need to stick to - IMO

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Thing is, the whole setting is based around the Sorcerer Kings being defilers. There are whole works dedicated to the lore around the SK's. If you get that bit wrong, you don't really stay true to the spirit of DS. It's that one piece of lore you really need to stick to - IMO

Yea... I didn’t change that. What is your point?

 

[Dispater]

"Many of the Sorcerer Kings are actually dragon bloodline sorcerers (or at least have levels in this class). Others, however, use rituals to quickly mimic the sort of transformation that members of this class undergo slowly. In either case, to become a true avangion or dragon, not merely a spellcaster who can mimic certain aspects of an avangion or a dragon, a character must progress beyond 20th level."

This. So what is a sorcerer king in your campaign? Are they defilers or sorcerers? Because a defiler is a wizard and not a draconic bloodline sorcerer. That's the way the whole setting was built up. The SK's were the original champions who used defiling magic to destroy Athas. There are no true dragons in Dark Sun. It is an entirely magical creature you can turn into as the result of casting a very powerful 10th level defiling spell.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

I see. You did not read the defiling rules very carefully. A defiler, in my version of the setting, is any arcane magic user who chooses to defile. Both wizards and sorcerers can choose to defile.

 

[grimslade]

Direct translation isn’t going to work for Darksun. We need a defiling system to be an incentive to use it. In 2e Defiling was a quick path to power. Preservers were gimped by contrast. There was sacrifice in being responsible. How do we adequately reflect this in 5e? Does DS5e need to go to spell points or use the sorcerer with the wizard spell list to represent the defiler and the regular wizard class to represent the preserver? Or is that too much? I don’t want to see defiling reduced to a +2 bonus to DC or disadvantage on a save. There is a reason the majority of Athas is a wasteland and paltry bonus does not represent it.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Direct translation isn’t going to work for Darksun. We need a defiling system to be an incentive to use it. In 2e Defiling was a quick path to power. Preservers were gimped by contrast. There was sacrifice in being responsible. How do we adequately reflect this in 5e? Does DS5e need to go to spell points or use the sorcerer with the wizard spell list to represent the defiler and the regular wizard class to represent the preserver? Or is that too much? I don’t want to see defiling reduced to a +2 bonus to DC or disadvantage on a save. There is a reason the majority of Athas is a wasteland and paltry bonus does not represent it.

I agree. That’s why I designed it the way I did. Free spell slots... at risk.

 

[Zardnaar]

They didn't have contemporary sorcerers back in 2e, period. I decided to riff on the name "Sorcerer Kings" when I adapted my version of 5e Dark Sun. I realize it isn't 100% faithful to the original, but it sticks to its spirit, and it is what works for me. I used the sorcerer class as basically an arcane/psionic hybrid character class that can give a character a "slow climb" towards becoming an avangion or a new sorcerer king (if that concept interested them) *shrug*

As for defiling/preserving, I wanted defiling to be the "more powerful" option, not the "default" option. Its the "easy climb to power." By using it, you basically get free spell slots (and in some ways model having more spell slots per level as per the original rules). It, however, comes with a cost (for both flavour and balance reasons).

Good call on literacy. I should change that.

Sorcerer class doesn't really fit Dark Sun or at the very least requires a ds specific version. My defiling rules use intelligence saves and if you fail you become a defiler. Arcane bards and warlocks don't belong on Athas IMHO. The bard is the Rogue: assassin IMHO.

Sorcerer King is a job title not a class. Sorcerers were magic users/wizards.

 

[Salthorae]

In the absence of true psionics rules, I would make the sorcerer class act as Psion (use spell points rules for it) and take away the V/S/M component aspect of spells for them.

The biggest issue would be what bloodline to use, or don't maybe... give them V/S/M free spells, maybe take some a cue from the Wizard "mentalist" class Mearls did on Happy Fun Hour.

That keeps Wizard for the "Sorcerer" Kings!

 

[Dispater]

In the absence of true psionics rules, I would make the sorcerer class act as Psion (use spell points rules for it) and take away the V/S/M component aspect of spells for them.

The biggest issue would be what bloodline to use, or don't maybe... give them V/S/M free spells, maybe take some a cue from the Wizard "mentalist" class Mearls did on Happy Fun Hour.

That keeps Wizard for the "Sorcerer" Kings!

Just use versions of the mystic, and there's already been a 5e conversion of the 2e psionicist.

To be honest, the whole 'psionicists being spellcasters' thing that Mike Mearls is doing is really bugging me. I was hoping they'd be a bit more inventive with that and come up with something more in line with the mental powers of a psionicist.

 

[spartanah]

and how to become an avangion / dragon king...

in 2e it was 20 levels of wizard and psionic, MC rules here are different...