I hate death saves. Propose your solution.

[Tony Vargas]

Depending on how often players actually entered the -1 to -10 range vs just dying outright due to taking more than -10 of their hp in damage I might could go with this system. It's close but sometimes yields a not instant death state which I'm not against

Another occasional variation on that is negative CON score or negative 1st level HD...

...hm... actually, maybe you could use HD when dropped? Maybe, at 0, roll one HD, you have that many rounds to live?

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm with [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION]. I presented an idea that removed death saves. But if you aren't even willing to engage in trying to clarify what you are looking to achieve outside of the concrete "Let's get rid of Death Saves!" I don't know that it is worth continuing. You don't need help removing death saves. That's a mechanic. Mechanics are made for specific intentions or goals for how the games run. They do not exist in a vacuum. Mechanics are easy to create, but mechanics that satisfy specific design or game goals require much more thought and nuance.

I did engage your solution. I mentioned not liking it. I even asked a couple of questions about the proposed solution and pointed out that I didn't like the death spiral it could cause. Heck when you clarified it was done for realism I even elaborated that realism wasn't a top concern.

Now you are saying I didn't engage, I didn't clarify. What the heck? I mean appreciate your proposal but it wasn't for me. Heck, apparently you got the Spirit of the thread on first read given your suggestion. Are you just sore that I didn't like the suggestion or dismissed it too quickly for your liking?

 

[FrogReaver]

Another occasional variation on that is negative CON score or negative 1st level HD...

...hm... actually, maybe you could use HD when dropped? Maybe, at 0, roll one HD, you have that many rounds to live?

Interesting suggestion. Could likely be made as deadly or as non-deadly as desired. I kind of like it.

 

[Charlaquin]

Apparently you want to help by solving some puzzle of me wanting x and y and z and then finding perfect puzzle piece that can include all of them.

Not so. Rather, I am uninterested in designing with no design goals. Throwing ideas at the wall with no driving goals leads to unfocused mechanics, which I am not a fan of.

That's not what this thread is. It's literally a brain storm session. Propose a solution. Be creative. It's not an engineering problem, it's an art problem.

It’s a design problem. Design involves elements of both art and science, and it should be done with purpose. I’ll happily contribute ideas to your brainstorm if you give me some indication of what your purpose is. WHY do you want to change the death and dying rules? WHAT don’t you like about them? If you can tell me that, I’ll have something to work with. Otherwise I’m just saying random crap with no idea if it will be of any use to you.

If you have a specific question about whether I like something I'll answer as best as I can but if you start talking super general non-specific mechanics then the best I can probably give you at this point is maybe.

I did have a specific question, it was “do you want a pre-death injured or unconscious state?” If you don’t have a preference regarding such states, you could have just said so. But instead you gave me vague nonsense about “I want what’s fun.” Great, then either tell me what “fun” looks like to you, or give me a more useful answer to my question. Do you want a pre-death emergency state? Yes, no, or indifferent?

 

[MNblockhead]

How about making inspiration mean something.

No death saves, but you can use inspiration to stabalize at zero.

Inspiration is often forgotten when I use it per RAW, but if it was the only way to survive hitting zero HP, it would be used.

 

[pogre]

tldr: In addition to OP's original suggestion - PC @ 1st level max hp rolls with disadvantage.

I am trying to figure out how to be helpful, but I am struggling after reading through the thread.

Let's see if I have the OP's original favorite solution right - jack up first level hit points and when you hit 0 the PC is dead.

Then I think the OP adjusted his/her original position some, but I admit I am not sure.

So, I think the OP is looking for a solution that makes the PCs a little hardier in hps, but out of action = dead.

IMC, this would lead to the PCs running away from tight or closely fought combats - is that a/the design goal?

I could be completely wrong - so forgive my confusion.

Perhaps using the OPs original formula for 1st level hps you go a step further and when a PC reaches Level HP Max plus Constitution modifier they start rolling with disadvantage. That would certainly supply a red flag for PCs.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Interesting suggestion. Could likely be made as deadly or as non-deadly as desired. I kind of like it.

Cool, I'm actually getting an idea I kinda like:

Keep instant death at negative max hps.

Track & heal from negative hps, so reduced whack-a-mole incintives.

When dropped to 0, you're unconscious 1d4 hrs, wake up with 1hp.

When dropped below 0 you die, unless you have HD left, then you can roll 1 or more HD, if the result is greater than your current negative hps, you wake up in 1d4 hrs (or sooner if healed) with hps equal to the number you exceeded the negatives by.
If not, you die.

Advantages: removes the perverse incentive to whack-a-mole, enables the left-for-dead trope, gives tough classes and higher level characters better chances to survive, makes managing HD a more important consideration.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think I would even be okay with a variation on death saves where you die the first time you fail one. Maybe if you roll 3 success in a row you manage to stabilize on your own. Might have to adjust death save dc a bit to get to the sweet spot with this.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think I would even be okay with a variation on death saves where you die the first time you fail one. Maybe if you roll 3 success in a row you manage to stabilize on your own. Might have to adjust death save dc a bit to get to the sweet spot with this.

So I take it your issue with the current system is that it doesn’t create enough tension when a character goes down?

 

[FrogReaver]

It’s a design problem. Design involves elements of both art and science, and it should be done with purpose. I’ll happily contribute ideas to your brainstorm if you give me some indication of what your purpose is. WHY do you want to change the death and dying rules? WHAT don’t you like about them? If you can tell me that, I’ll have something to work with. Otherwise I’m just saying random crap with no idea if it will be of any use to you.

I'm really not trying to sound like a broke record here. I don't find 5e death saves fun. I want death to be more instant and more likely (maybe not more likely at low levels). 5e Death saves prolong a player death and make it very unlikely the die without a complete party wipe. I'm fairly certain I've said all this before so I doubt it helps but I don't know what more I can really define for you on this.

I did have a specific question, it was “do you want a pre-death injured or unconscious state?” If you don’t have a preference regarding such states, you could have just said so. But instead you gave me vague nonsense about “I want what’s fun.” Great, then either tell me what “fun” looks like to you, or give me a more useful answer to my question. Do you want a pre-death emergency state? Yes, no, or indifferent?

Specific questions are better. I don't know of any implementation I particularly care for but I'm not willing to rule such a thing out entirely. I don't know all implementations etc. Which is why I responded previously with whatever is more fun because I wasn't rulling it out completely even though my comments about death spirals should have given you a fairly informed guess that I generally disliked them as most mechanics like that end up having a high death spiral effect.