D&D 5E Shield Attacks and AC Bonus

[FrogReaver]

Yes. Resemble can mean in appearance. But it is not only in appearance. Even in the example provided by Merriam-Webster is not only limited resemblance to appearance, but also in temperament. Resemblance is not limited, or even mostly, in terms of appearance.

Perhaps you do not see the resemblance as I do. Perhaps you are focusing on different qualities or weighting these similarities differently. That's fine. But regardless, it does not make my rulings any less merited as a fair interpretation than your interpretation.

Nothing to do with that. A shield does not resemble a mace. The force a shield can apply resembles the force a mace can apply. But the rules don’t talk about forces. They talk about object 1 resembling object 2.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Nothing to do with that. A shield does not resemble a mace. The force a shield can apply resembles the force a mace can apply. But the rules don’t talk about forces. They talk about object 1 resembling object 2.

Excellent! So we agree that a mace/club and a shield can resemble each other in a quality other than appearance! Since force that can be applied when used as a weapon is an intrinsic property of the object being used!

Since the rule does not specify visual resemblance, then we are on the same page! ^_^

 

[Hriston]

Let's say that a character wielding a weapon and a shield wants to attack with both.
I usually allow this, using the "two weapon fighting" rules.
My question is: does this character get his AC bonus from the shield after he attacked with the shield, against attacks made against me until his next action?
According to me he shouldn't get the AC Bonus from the Shield, since he used it as a weapon, but I'd like to know if I'm missing something, using the RAW.
Many Thanks!

I think the question is whether the extra damage you're giving him is worth forgoing the two points of AC. I'd say anything less than a d8 makes this kinda unattractive, unless you're also allowing him to add his ability modifier.

 

[BookBarbarian]

I would like to add that giving a shield a d6 damage as an improvised weapon is entirely reasonable. In the SCA, hitting someone with a shield is not allowed as the energy from a hit (with shields that have been nerfed, btw) can knock out or kill someone wearing armor -- especially a blow to the head. This energy is generated just by extending the arm, so not much distance needed.

This is the same reason why you can't Mordhau in HEMA. It turns out techniques that were very effective against opponents in armor are still effective against opponents in armor.

Now how well that translates into D&D where an opponent might be a bear or a troll, and have natural armor? Well I'm not so sure that it does.

I think a shield bash as an improvised weapon doing 1d4 plus Strength bludgeoning damage is pretty good, though I wouldn't care if a DM made it a 1d6.

 

[Yunru]

Nothing to do with that. A shield does not resemble a mace. The force a shield can apply resembles the force a mace can apply. But the rules don’t talk about forces. They talk about object 1 resembling object 2.

Why, for the love of god, are you arguing about whether a WEAPON looks like another weapon?

For the purposes of damage, it's pretty fraking obvious that "resembles" ISN'T talking about appearance, rather about how much it resembles how the other weapon's used.

 

[FrogReaver]

Why, for the love of god, are you arguing about whether a WEAPON looks like another weapon?

For the purposes of damage, it's pretty fraking obvious that "resembles" ISN'T talking about appearance, rather about how much it resembles how the other weapon's used.

A shield is not used like a mace either. So I don’t know what your going on about

 

[FrogReaver]

Excellent! So we agree that a mace/club and a shield can resemble each other in a quality other than appearance! Since force that can be applied when used as a weapon is an intrinsic property of the object being used!

Since the rule does not specify visual resemblance, then we are on the same page! ^_^

No. You are applying the resemblance to the shield. I’m applying it to the force.

 

[epithet]

Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

 

[Hawk Diesel]

No. You are applying the resemblance to the shield. I’m applying it to the force.

Force is mass times acceleration applied over the area of the striking surface. Since mass and the surface area are intrinsic properties of the object/weapon, and acceleration is provided by the work done by the wielder, then you cannot discuss force without taking into account variables that can be compared between the objects being discussed. Therefore, a comparison of striking force between objects is a comparison between objects. Force does not exist without objects. And since these variables can be compared, they can resemble one another. Even if the focus is on the forces achievable when using these objects as weapons, this conversation demands discussion of intrinsic properties of the objects that cannot be divorced from them because SCIENCE!

 

[Ganymede81]

Let's say that a character wielding a weapon and a shield wants to attack with both.
I usually allow this, using the "two weapon fighting" rules.
My question is: does this character get his AC bonus from the shield after he attacked with the shield, against attacks made against me until his next action?
According to me he shouldn't get the AC Bonus from the Shield, since he used it as a weapon, but I'd like to know if I'm missing something, using the RAW.
Many Thanks!

A character attacking with a shield as an improvised weapon will not get any AC bonus because the shield won't be donned. Shields are the size and weight of two handed weapons, so the PC would need to doff it and then swing it in both hands to use it effectively.

A character smacking/punching someone with a donned shield will still benefit from its AC bonus, but he's only inflicting a base one point of damage as it is an unarmed attack (much in the same way as a gauntleted punch, a helmed headbutt, or a booted kick).

Edit: Ok, I suppose you could try attacking with a donned shield as long as you are gripping it with your free hand as well. If you do that, you'd do 1d4 damage like a regular improvised weapon but you couldn't pair it with two weapon fighting.