D&D 4E The True Swordmage

[doctorbadwolf]

Spellbook was optional but a really good feat.

I think you left out "magically bond with your main weapon" (and/or "enchant you weapon yourself")

I could fluff this as coming form a lot of different power sources (wizardy-arcane, bardic-arcane, any sorcerer origin, most warlock patrons), although each would probably deserve a few specific abilities to reinforce the flavor - so there's your subclasses. I'd probably leave tanky/striker-y as build options from things like fighting style and spell selection.

Could do, but like with the cavalier fighter, you can do really interesting things with primary (sub)class features that are harder to do with spells or fighting styles, and can build on those to combine into a very strong focus, or can be used to split focus between roles, etc.

edit: as for the bonded weapon, yes! That’s one of my favorite bits! I made it a key pillar of my 5e Swordmage.

 

[Garthanos]

The swordmage is funky. Like most of the 4e role/ power source classes invented for that edition it was not particularly generic.

The teleporting element at minimum was not intended to be "generic" or not meant to be it was seemingly meant to carry the fey flavor.

Though strangely it works as generic in my own head space ... ie sword magic cuts through time and space and dimensions... and it drags elements along for the ride almost accidentally rather than as the focus.

 

[jgsugden]

The easiest way for you to accomplish your task would be to craft spells available to wizards that utilize a weapon in them - or just to refluff some of the existing spells to incorporate the weapon in how you describe them to work. For example, you might hurl your flaming sword and watch a Wall of Fire spring up behinf the path it travels.

However, I do think there is room to create a class that functions this way specifically and fundamentally - perhaps one that does not use spells at all. Something that functions more like a monk than a spellcaster. It would be on the short list of class designs that could truly add to what we already have.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The easiest way for you to accomplish your task would be to craft spells available to wizards that utilize a weapon in them - or just to refluff some of the existing spells to incorporate the weapon in how you describe them to work. For example, you might hurl your flaming sword and watch a Wall of Fire spring up behinf the path it travels.

However, I do think there is room to create a class that functions this way specifically and fundamentally - perhaps one that does not use spells at all. Something that functions more like a monk than a spellcaster. It would be on the short list of class designs that could truly add to what we already have.

I made soemthing like that, though it does use spells when the ability picture is basically already a spell.

 

[Garthanos]

The easiest way for you to accomplish your task would be to craft spells available to wizards that utilize a weapon in them - or just to refluff some of the existing spells to incorporate the weapon in how you describe them to work. For example, you might hurl your flaming sword and watch a Wall of Fire spring up behinf the path it travels.

Sure some of that is trivial and fine but I want those tactical teleports where I cut through reality.. I want a defender option with that shielding. I want intellect to actually be useful and core to how my character uses that weapon.
That intelligence based melee was even part of my character Alek CorDaren's origin where he takes out a bully without having undergone training at all. The oddity of being able to use a weapon with vivid predictive intelligence (see Sherlock Holmes planning the fight out to 8 attacks in advance style in the Robert Downey Junior movie) instead of strength.

 

[Garthanos]

Predictive intelligence? preceded by endurance training

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yep, part of the concept for my SM is that they see the geometry of combat as it changes in real time, like a vector diagram. That’s why their defense is Int based. I left attack and damage alone so that the class is more like a Paladin in terms of stat layout, though using Int for attack and defense would be in line with full casters and non-casters. But half caster warriors need two main stats in 5e.

 

[Jester David]

That isn’t a very specific concept, though. What you described is generic.

Not... really.

It's a generic swordmage but it's not something that could fill the role of a dozen sword-and-magic users seen in literature. It doesn't fit effortlessly into existing campaign settings with established fighter-mages being retconned into the class. It isn't a largely blank slate that people can customize or relfavour to fit their own character.
The 4e swordmade does very specific things other than "fight with sword and magic". And a 5e update of the swordmage should do those things, or just call itsell the "spellsword"or "mageknight".

 

[Jester David]

So, what makes a Swordmage?

Ignoring the fact that classes don’t need to do all the same things between editions, let’s look at what a close conversion would need.

Aegis: magical protection that also has active abilities, usually but not always reactive.

Attacks with weapons that are spells. Smite/ensaring strike style spells work, but more complexity and variety is warranted. “Throw your weapon and make a Melee weapon attack against all creature within 10ft of your target, and then all creatures within that space have to save vs spell-level-appropriate lightning damage. Any creature hit by your weapon attack has disadvantage on the save.”

Tactical teleportation. New spells or a class feature can handle this fine.

A Spellbook? Or was that an optional thing with a feat? Either way, it would help set them apart from other gishes.

The ability to attack with Int, and have good defenses without armor. Easy enough in 5e.

I really don’t see the difficulty. Give it the same flavor as in 4e, but split some stuff off into the defender/tank focused subclass, and then lean in other directions for other subclasses.

Updating 4e classes is tricky because they have 1-2 things that are assumed and everything else is a power soup of optional powers. Three people couple play swordmages and have entirely different ideas of what the class should do.

Warding. Boosting AC via magic. This could be adding your Intelligence to AC when you have an empty hand and are wearing light armour. Which might be high, but they are meant to be a tanky... Or just boost AC by 2 with a special version of mage armour that still allows you to weak light armour.

Aegis. This might be the big feature, that works simmilar to smite, where you trigger it with a spell slot to teleport themselves or teleport a target.

Not sure if they should attack with Strength/ Dexterity or Intelligence. If the later, Warding should be reduced. With how the hexblade works, it wouldn't be impossible to have it hit off Int.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not... really.

It's a generic swordmage but it's not something that could fill the role of a dozen sword-and-magic users seen in literature. It doesn't fit effortlessly into existing campaign settings with established fighter-mages being retconned into the class. It isn't a largely blank slate that people can customize or relfavour to fit their own character.
The 4e swordmade does very specific things other than "fight with sword and magic". And a 5e update of the swordmage should do those things, or just call itsell the "spellsword"or "mageknight".

Absolutely not.

But even if I accepted the premise that a 5e Swordmage must do the same specific things a 4e Swordmage does, there is no reason a 5e Swordmage can’t do those things and quite ably fill a dozen or more archetypes in the process.

But also, it doesn’t need to be a largely blank slate. As I suggest earlier, of all the classes only maybe 3 fit that description. The only official post-phb class so far absolutely doesn’t fit that description.

Rather, a new class should have a distinct identity, and a 5e Swordmage should be less generic than the 4e Swordmage.