WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[BookBarbarian]

If the book is OLD, then no. It's the past. You can and should not change or hide the past.

If the book is to be written now,things are different.

EDIT: heck, i'm even against banning something like the Mein Kampf. You can't learn if you destroy your errors.

There's is also a risk of perpetuation those errors by staring too long into the abyss, or having them framed in a way to further weaponize them. There are right now people reading that book and thinking "You now this guy had it right"

I do see value from a historical perspective. Know your enemy - Japan is available on Netflix right now. The description starts with "Offensive by modern standards, this propaganda film..." frames the history well. Dire Bear's solution seems to be in the same vein.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It is a campaign to force the IP holder to remove it completely from circulation.

I'll ask again: where is the line between trying to persuade a company and its customers to do what you consider to be the right thing, and forcing them to do it?

I could see that some kind of lawsuit that would legally require them to remove it might be considered "force".

But what about this example counts as force?

 

[delericho]

If WotC are serious about dealing with the issue, then where there genuinely is a problem (as, in some cases, there is) they will need to take action.

In the case of OA, that probably means removing it from sale or, at the very least, adding a disclaimer. And certainly, they shouldn't try to build anything on those foundations - those elements of the settings affected will just need to be left very well alone.

In some other cases, that may meaning excising material from the game and the setting, potentially including longstanding and much-loved elements. And in very severe cases, that really does require the removal of those elements.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'll ask again

I said what I had to say.

 

[Todd Roybark]

This is a quote from Orcslayer78, from this thread. Since Orcslayer was moderated out, I am posting it manually:
Extremists are never satisfied, they want only the complete desctruction of an hobby finding every small invented reason to be outraged.

The phrasing “invented reason”, is probably the single most intolerant and offensive statement, possible. Essentially it is negating the personhood of others, and saying any viewpoint that, YOU personally don’t see or agree with is artificial, not natural, and thus FAKE.

@Derren, @tommybahama, @Sadras.....I write this with a true spirit of inquiry, as I trust you are posting not as agent provocateurs, (which I can not say for some, alas), but would you be so kind as to explain why you agree with the sentiment? I truly want to understand your viewpoint.

Openly approving of that statement is akin to approving of the job performance of a paramedic that tells someone with a burst appendix that their pain is fake, that they are faking because the paramedic doesn’t see blood.

I don’t see either of you three as unkind, so would you explain why dismissing pain someone else feels, (that you currently do not feel), as fake, is something you applaud?

I love the cover artwork of the 1e Oriental Adventures book. The book, was to me personally, a gateway to begin to explore a larger view of human culture....as almost all the Early D&D books did.

That said, RPG Drive Thru, in my opinion, has the right to determine which products, the private company wishes to sell. This is not a Totalitarian Government forcibly removing and burning a viewpoint.....this is the right of a commercial enterprise to decide what products to sell, and how the enterprises wishes to respond to the viewpoints of it’s customer base.

To all...Should RPG Drive Thru be forced to carry a product against their will? How is that freedom?

 

[Guest 6801328]

That means that if I, for example, wanted to do some research on 1e (which I do pretty often) and I lost my hardcover .... I'd be SOL in a while. There is one used copy on Amazon at $198.

I want to respond to this, too.

That does certainly sound like an inconvenience. So if we want to turn this into a matter of maximum utility, it would thus seem that WotC would have to choose between two evils: making it more challenging for you, and others like you, to do research on 1e, and perpetuating language that some number of people have found offensive for decades.

I suppose it comes down to a) how many people we're talking about, on each side, and b) how offensive. Right?

 

[Guest 6801328]

I said what I had to say.

Duly noted. I guess I'll file that one under "witness evaded the question."

 

[Guest 6801328]

To all...Should RPG Drive Thru be forced to carry a product against their will? How is that freedom?

Funny how easy it is to turn a hollow argument around 180 degrees, huh?

 

[darjr]

As a descendant of the vikings I very much take issue with that. My people have at times been dirt poor, have been taken as slaves and been spoken of with disgust. Why can't we play in this victim lottery as well?

Oh! So you do get it! Racism sucks. It’s unescapable when your a minority in a place full of it and now, even now, another portrayal like “Chang” gets piled on the heap of burdens I can’t drop. At least you have the opportunity to “blend” into “main stream” culture here. I never will be able to. Not fully. And especially not when racists who hide and work behind the scenes, who really do exist, are about their business. At some point it needs to be brought out into the light, even kicking and screaming.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Why can't we play in this victim lottery as well?

Politely, is there a way, you might rephrase this to a term more conducive for honest discussion, and less likely to engender an emotional reaction?

In my experience, persons from Scandinavia, indeed Scandinavia itself, are generally considered in a positive context in Occidental cultures.

If you have experienced discrimination due to being from Sweden, I would love to learn more about it.

In the USA, especially in the part called the Midwest, no one would call you a slur like “Viking Scum” if you told them where you were from.