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“You do realize”

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Have you ever seen a post that started with "You do realize" that wasn't just as condescending as "Bless your heart"?

I have used "you do realize" in a humorous way. "You do realize there is only one beer left and I am going to have to be the unfortunate soul who consumes it to save you your figure, right?"

Shoot half of what I post is meant in a humorous way, and sometimes mistaken for a serious tone. Which is on me, but I swear it's just my poor writing!
 

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It would seem to me that the onus should be on the writer to say what they actually mean, rather than putting the onus on the reader to interpret in a charitable manner... just to save the author having to write a few words to clarify.
It is more than "Just a few words" to satisfy the quibbles and nitpicks, that constitute a large part of this board's culture, and mode of behaving towards each other.

The amount of times I've written a post as voluminous and dense as Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, to satisfy all the quibbles I expect to come, only to find the thread has advanced by 3 pages in the meantime, are legion.

The pedantic culture on this board, is largely the preferences of the posters, but also in part the "style guide" suggestions of the Moderation staff.

Does feeling like one has to write a mini D&D doctoral thesis for each post, increase our enjoyment?

To quote an average joe, (until he picks up his guitar), "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"

I appreciate the hard work the ENworld staff does.
When I look at events in the world today, two words leap to mind: Paradigm Shift.

Yet when, people at ENWorld suggest changes, the answer "No" comes, seemingly, reflexively.
 


jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
Other red flags that I've come across...

"To be honest..." (as opposed to, what?)
"I'm sorry but..." (...but you aren't really apologizing.)
"If I can play the devil's advocate..." (No. The devil doesn't need advocacy.)
Wow, I use those all the time. To me, they all have specific meanings.

"To be honest" = "I'm going to lay it all out, so apologies if this sounds a little blunt."

"I'm sorry, but" = "I'm going to say something a little bit personal about your tastes/opinions, which I normally wouldn't do, so I'm sorry about that, but I feel like this is a point that needs to be made."

"If I can play the devil's advocate" = "I don't necessarily believe the argument I'm about to make, but let's give it a spin just for the sake of seeing where it leads."

The implication of apology in the first two may be linked to me being a midwesterner?
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
"If I can play the devil's advocate..." (No. The devil doesn't need advocacy.)

Yes, it does. There are incredibly important critical thinking benefits from someone in the room playing devil's advocate if nobody is taking up a counter-argument to a topic sometimes.

It's why if you take a college debate course or critical thinking course one of the earliest things your professor is likely to ask you to do is to argue the opposite side from that which you naturally support. And one reason why the professor is giving you a counter-argument to topics students raise in class even if that professor doesn't personally believe in that argument in almost any liberal arts class. What the heck would philosophy even look like if nobody took up the causes they didn't naturally agree with to test them?

I am kinda shocked someone would argue AGAINST people playing devil's advocate. We should want more of that, not less. If you're never doing it, why are you not challenging your own pre-conceived notions with a test of having to advocate against them to see if they hold up?
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I am kinda shocked someone would argue AGAINST people playing devil's advocate.

Because, Mistwell, what you describe above is not how it is commonly used these days in public discussion.

In order to properly play the role of Devil's Advocate constructively, the speaker must first be trusted to not be a bad actor. The Devil's Advocate must be scrupulously honest, and be interested in exploration of the topic, not personally invested in holding the position, and willing to cede various points (and the case) if their argument fails.

I expect most people's experience with a Devil's Advocate is more likely with a form of sealion in Advocate's clothing.
 


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