D&D General WotC Has Owned D&D Longer Than TSR Did

As Matt Forbeck pointed out on Twitter, WotC has owned D&D for 24 years since it purchased TSR in 1997. TSR created D&D in 1974, 23 years before WotC bought it.

 

[billd91]

I have never been satisfied with rangers in post-1E version - but after 2E was even worse because I don't like them becoming a spellcasting class so early.

I'm not really fussed by them being spell casters - I like some of the thematic spells they have in 5e, in fact. But I will agree that it's rare that an edition of D&D after 1e got the ranger right on the first try. 2e didn't. 3.0 didn't. I don't think 5e is quite right. Pathfinder 1e and 4e come closest to not needing obvious revisions right off the bat. I'm still evaluating PF2e.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I have said if Hasbro know they can make money with D&D and with Star Wars d20, then they also can with d20 version of X videogame franchise.

If I say something but you don't answer me in that moment, then I feel like as if you never listened me. I thing you shouldn't blame it.

I am surprised with a d20 version of Hasbro franchises, but I wonder why that work for an outsourcer company, Renegade Game Studios and not by the own WotC team.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I have no memory of the Soviet Union even existing, though there was some overlap.

STOP BEING YOUNG

 

[jmartkdr2]

Do you think Hasbro will force WotC to combine all these different aspects into a new, ultimate version of D20 Modern? I wonder what you think about that sort of possibility, I haven't seen it discussed.

Modern Hasbro execs seem to think in terms of IP - they know that toys sell better with a story attached, and the big money is in movies/tv. A generic rpg not tied to a specific setting/IP would be a really tough sell to them.

Theoretically, they could make games based on their already-owned IPs, but they outsourced the My Little Pony rpg so that doesn't seem like something they're interested in. Ttrpgs aren't big money, after all.

A brand-new ttrpg in a brand-new IP? Maybe, if it could be done cheaply with money and time scraped off of other projects, and in that case leveraging customer-known rulesets makes sense... but the whole project would need to be inside a rounding error to pass the budget process.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Even before the 90s, I don't know that my younger self could've ever imagined the scale of D&D's success and popularity today.

Given how bleak the D&D business situation was in 1996-1997, my then early 20s self would be relieved and surprised to see how popular and visible D&D is today. Back then I thought D&D had become an anachronism (of the 20th century) whose glory days were past. It was going to fade away.

One thing the research and scholarly discourse on D&D has revealed was just how poorly-run TSR was. The Random House deal, for example, or the massive splitting of the market with all the settings in 2e. The list goes on. Sometimes it feels like the only reason TSR survived as well as they did was that D&D was lightning-in-a-bottle product.

Kind of puts to rest grognards complaining about the TSR days as WOTC has produced 3 editions that outsold AD&D 2e and maintained the profitability of D&D the whole time span (in spite of some edition warring)/

"Well akshully..." I am a QA!

Which, as a QA, when you start talking quantifiable metrics like profit, sales, and user base size, and a grognard responds with "well popularity isn't everything," I am forced to wonder, what quantifiable measure would they like to use instead? As much as I am as subject to nostalgia and putting on rose tinted glasses, warm fuzzies are not a measurable value. Do we start talking paper quality, number of color artwork pieces, number of typos, amount of errata released?

Yes, customer satisfaction is important, but it is not easily (directly) measured without survey data. Lacking comparative customer satisfaction metrics for all editions leads us right back to using profit, sales, and user base size to infer customer satisfaction.

I get a part of it, though. It's a hard thing for me to be objective about something so important to me growing up. I start looking at Easley and Elmore covers, named character levels, B&W Trampier art, race as class, and something short-circuits the critical thinking part of me a little. I will never fault a person for saying "I like X edition more." We like what we like. But to say that Wizards is destroying the game (which, there have been people claiming that the game has been being destroyed since 1e came out; it's amazing there's any game left), or not acting as good shepherds, those claims require data.

Quality is subjective. Perhaps we should ask casual internet discussion group participants to submit their quality-assurance specs when opining on whether they feel a product is of good quality⸮

It's wild to think how time has flown. I remember being in college and having not gamed for a few years, then coming back to the hobby and discovering that TSR was no more and that upstart Magic company owned D&D now.

 

[bedir than]

I started playing AD&D 2nd edition in 1989 but pretty much stopped by around 1996. I've been playing 5th edition for just about as long as I played 2nd edition and it's likely I'll surpass it after this year.

I'm rapidly approaching more 5e than the B/A/2 history I had in basically that same era (my memories of starting are imprecise).

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Do you think Hasbro will force WotC to combine all these different aspects into a new, ultimate version of D20 Modern? I wonder what you think about that sort of possibility, I haven't seen it discussed.

I would like a D20 modern or a D20 Urban Arcana

 

[Marc_C]

I would like a D20 modern or a D20 Urban Arcana

Check out Ultramodern: Ultramodern5 (5th Edition) - Dias Ex Machina Games | DriveThruRPG.com

 

[bedir than]

There are no know plans for a sci-fi, a post-apocalyptic or a modern version of 5e. I has been said Hasbro/WoTC doesn't want to slipt the consumer base into spin off 5e games.

Two of those Hasbro licensed to Renegade Games. They're working on Transformers RPG using a 5e framework and GI Joe (which is essentially super&modern mashup).

Renegade has a solid 5e setting called Wardlings already if you want to see their work. It's the same designer, who joined RG full time due to the licensed games.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You reach certain milestones in your life and realize you're getting older.

The first time I heard Guns N' Roses' "Welcome to the Jungle" which appeared on 1987's Appetite for Destruction on a classic rock station was back around 2005. And I realized that in 1987 the oldies station in Dallas, 98.7 K-LUV, often played songs that weren't as old as "Welcome to the Jungle" was in 2005.

The original Star Trek series was cancelled in 1969. I remember celebrating the 25th anniversary of Star Trek in 1992. The 25th anniversary of Star Trek: The Next Generation was in 2019.

I started playing AD&D 2nd edition in 1989 but pretty much stopped by around 1996. I've been playing 5th edition for just about as long as I played 2nd edition and it's likely I'll surpass it after this year.

Yeah, video games that seemed unfathomably ancient in, say, 1990, like Pong (1972) are less old than games I remember as "modern" now (like Hostile Waters: Anataeus Rising (2001)). Similar things happened with late '80s movies that I saw in the early 1990s. I mean, hell, Fellowship of the Ring is 2001, so 20 years old. When I was say 13, that would be like a movie from 1971.

Re: D&D looking at "amount played", I think it's still 2E > 4E > 5E for me, but 5E will overtake 4E very soon, and only hasn't because we played so much 4E. It may even overtake 2E.