D&D General Dragons Versus Giants: A Speculative and Homebrew Explanation For Why They Hate Each Other

[SkidAce]

I've a proto-setting idea that skips the analogy and basically goes straight to "dragons are either gods or angels," making them Apollonian, celestial/Olympic beings, bringers of order, skill, and pristine structure. Giants then take on the role of the Dionysian, earthly/Chthonic beings, ones of chaos, abandon, and torrid emotion. As a general rule, this makes giants beings you at best want to propitiate and at worst you want absolutely nothing to do with, because they're really scary, while (non-Chromatic) dragons are known to be overall positive (even if they're also scary and don't always stop to explain themselves; consider how most angels introduce themselves by saying, "Fear not!") Chromatic dragons have fallen because their parent, Tiamat, fell due to Mythic Backstory things. Originally Tiamat was meant to lead the pantheon, with Bahamut as their consort and advisor; their fall is literally part of why things suck (reality itself is out of alignment as a result of it).

Thats good stuff.

If I didn't have an established world history already....

 

[SkidAce]

In my games, the animosity between dragons and giants stems from the fact they fought on opposite sides of the Dawn War. Dragons fought for the celestials, giants for the elementals.

More accurately, dragons were created to usurp the power of the primordials (the lords and masters of the elementals), while giants were created to usurp the power of the gods. This is why older the dragon, the more imbued with elemental energy it becomes (and the older the giant, the more godlike they seem to become).

EDIT - in case I didn’t make it clear, both dragons and giants have age categories in my settings.

Dragons: Young -> Adult -> Ancient -> Catastrophic
Giants: Young -> Adult -> Ancient -> Titan

Cool, I also have age category (ish) giants.

However, my prehistory is :

Chaos/Limbo > Tiamat (sumerian mother of monsters style) > primordials
Astral/Law > Ptah (demiurge) > Empyreans (titans) > giants > humans/dwarves

The two camps actually fought together in the Dawn War, cause nobody wants a return to the Void (far realm), but really disagree about how to run the comsos.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

In my games, the animosity between dragons and giants stems from the fact they fought on opposite sides of the Dawn War. Dragons fought for the celestials, giants for the elementals.

More accurately, dragons were created to usurp the power of the primordials (the lords and masters of the elementals), while giants were created to usurp the power of the gods. This is why older the dragon, the more imbued with elemental energy it becomes (and the older the giant, the more godlike they seem to become).

EDIT - in case I didn’t make it clear, both dragons and giants have age categories in my settings.

Dragons: Young -> Adult -> Ancient -> Catastrophic
Giants: Young -> Adult -> Ancient -> Titan

Nice. I don't use Age Categories for my world's giants, but do have Titans as a creature type that the 6 True Giants can ascend to (Hill, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Stone, Storm), as the "Demigod"-like version of their race. Titans are Gargantuan and tied heavily to the elements that they are born from, so a Hill Titan is the size of a mountain and looks like one, a Fire Titan is about 50% composed of fire, Storm Titans are always surrounded by a thunderstorm, Frost Titans look like living glaciers, and so on.

 

[Mind of tempest]

interesting

Cool, I also have age category (ish) giants.

However, my prehistory is :

Chaos/Limbo > Tiamat (sumerian mother of monsters style) > primordials
Astral/Law > Ptah (demiurge) > Empyreans (titans) > giants > humans/dwarves

The two camps actually fought together in the Dawn War, cause nobody wants a return to the Void (far realm), but really disagree about how to run the comsos.

what would the far realm's champions be then?

 

[SkidAce]

interesting

what would the far realm's champions be then?

Not much consistency in their madness, but I do repurpose yugoloths (humans corrupted by far realm) and some aberrations.

 

[Scribe]

4e World Axis setting

I thought 4e was Dragon's vs Elemental Gods totally?

Or is that where the First World stuff came from?

(I dont know much of anything about 4e origin lore.)

 

[Bitbrain]

I’m really enjoying this thread a lot and feel like sharing two examples of giants and age categories work in my games.

CLOUD GIANTS

1. Young cloud giants are essentially regular D&D cloud giants.
2. Adult and Ancient cloud giants start the transition to “stellar” pseudo-deity. They develop innate divination magics, their weapons glow with radiant energy, and they can increase or reverse gravity in specified areas around them.
3. Titan cloud giants are more commonly known as “Star Titans”. They gain the ability to pull shooting stars down from the sky to bomb their enemies à la Thanos from Avengers: Infinity War.

FROST GIANTS

1. Young frost giants are slightly more magical versions of regular D&D frost giants. They can create localized ice storms, basically.
2. Adult and Ancient frost giants start the transition to “entropic” pseudo-deity. They develop innate necromancy magics, their touch drains health from a target, and the ice storms they create deal necrotic damage as well as cold.
3. Titan frost giants are more commonly known as “Death Titans”. They gain a breath weapon of sorts that pulls you towards them. If you fail the saving throw, you get sucked into their mouth and they start biting down on you.

 

[Aldarc]

I thought 4e was Dragon's vs Elemental Gods totally?

Or is that where the First World stuff came from?

(I dont know much of anything about 4e origin lore.)

Primordials (Elemental Gods) created the Titans who in turn created the Giants. Giants belong to Team Primordials, much like how Dragons belong to Team Gods.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Not much consistency in their madness, but I do repurpose yugoloths (humans corrupted by far realm) and some aberrations.

we really need a big type of aberration line just for boss battles,

I’m really enjoying this thread a lot and feel like sharing two examples of giants and age categories work in my games.

CLOUD GIANTS

1. Young cloud giants are essentially regular D&D cloud giants.
2. Adult and Ancient cloud giants start the transition to “stellar” pseudo-deity. They develop innate divination magics, their weapons glow with radiant energy, and they can increase or reverse gravity in specified areas around them.
3. Titan cloud giants are more commonly known as “Star Titans”. They gain the ability to pull shooting stars down from the sky to bomb their enemies à la Thanos from Avengers: Infinity War.

FROST GIANTS

1. Young frost giants are slightly more magical versions of regular D&D frost giants. They can create localized ice storms, basically.
2. Adult and Ancient frost giants start the transition to “entropic” pseudo-deity. They develop innate necromancy magics, their touch drains health from a target, and the ice storms they create deal necrotic damage as well as cold.
3. Titan frost giants are more commonly known as “Death Titans”. They gain a breath weapon of sorts that pulls you towards them. If you fail the saving throw, you get sucked into their mouth and they start biting down on you.

would fire be solar titans?
what would stone and hill even be?
what would storm titans be other than truly terrifying?

 

[AtomicPope]

I do like your take on Dragons and Giants, but I lean more towards the 4e lore and merge it with Greek and Norse mythologies. The Primordial history of Giants in 4e is particularly interesting. It reminds me of Titanomachia, so I used it. The Primordials created the these ancient, powerful beings the Giants and Dragons. Their Primordial nature is why they are the embodiments of aspects of creation. The war between the Gods and Primordials, and each other, is still carried out by their first creations. In my own campaigns I have it where Titans had defeated and enslaved many Dragons, and there are still Titans with Dragon slaves in far away places unknown to mortals.