Ryan Dancey -- Hasbro Cannot Deauthorize OGL

I reached out to the architect of the original Open Gaming License, former VP of Wizard of the Coast, Ryan Dancey, and asked his opinion about the current plan by WotC to 'deauthorize' the current OGL in favour of a new one.

He responded as follows:

Yeah my public opinion is that Hasbro does not have the power to deauthorize a version of the OGL. If that had been a power that we wanted to reserve for Hasbro, we would have enumerated it in the license. I am on record numerous places in email and blogs and interviews saying that the license could never be revoked.

Ryan also maintains the Open Gaming Foundation.

As has been noted previously, even WotC in its own OGL FAQ did not believe at the time that the licence could be revoked.

7. Can't Wizards of the Coast change the License in a way that I wouldn't like?

Yes, it could. However, the License already defines what will happen to content that has been previously distributed using an earlier version, in Section 9. As a result, even if Wizards made a change you disagreed with, you could continue to use an earlier, acceptable version at your option. In other words, there's no reason for Wizards to ever make a change that the community of people using the Open Gaming License would object to, because the community would just ignore the change anyway.

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[Jadeite]

GSL 2: Electrocution Boogaloo

GSL 2: This time it's personal.
GSL 2: Just when you thought it was safe to go back into publishing.

 

[Knuffeldraak]

Until they go an change it... as they reserve the right to with 30 days notice.

A month is a fairly common ahead notice. The business standard for changes to contract or terms has been 4 weeks (28 days) for quite a long time.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

A month is a fairly common ahead notice. The business standard for changes to contract or terms has been 4 weeks (28 days) for quite a long time.

It really looks like you're intentionally missing the point.

If so, please don't do that. It lowers the tone of an already-fraught discussion.

The issue isn't 30 days, for god's sake, as should be absolutely obvious. The issue is that they reserve the right to completely change the terms of OGL 1.1 at any time.

Which is absolutely not normal, standard, reasonable or the like, when it's a document a business would be relying in order to keep doing business. They also threaten that if you take them to court, they'll automatically terminate you (probably wouldn't fly in the UK/EU, but I don't know about the US), so even if they gave you 30 days notice there'd be absolutely nothing you could do about it. No business can function if they rely on terms that could be changed to literally anything at any time, with no recourse.

 

[SteveC]

The issue isn't 30 days, for god's sake, as should be absolutely obvious. The issue is that they reserve the right to completely change the terms of OGL 1.1 at any time.

Which is absolutely not normal, standard, reasonable or the like, when it's a document a business would be relying in order to keep doing business. They also threaten that if you take them to court, they'll automatically terminate you (probably wouldn't fly in the UK/EU, but I don't know about the US), so even if they gave you 30 days notice there'd be absolutely nothing you could do about it. No business can function if they rely on terms that could be changed to literally anything at any time, with no recourse.

I think this is the point and it's well said. I know people who have gaming as their day job, and they are just about my age, which is to say old. They have kids, a mortgage and some still have student loans. I can't imagine being in a situation where you are 30 days away from needing a new job based on entirely arbitrary standards and where the person making that decision doesn't want you doing that job.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Throughout Y2K I operated a mailing list called ogf-l (actually I operated two, the other was ogf-d20-l for discussions about the D20 trademark license).

Starting at the GAMA Trade Show in the spring we engaged with as many 3rd parties as we could to get as much feedback as we could on the text of the two licenses. A lot of the people who participated in those discussions became publishers of various open gaming projects.

Out of just curiosity, do you remember what the feel was they gave off at the time? Were people skeptical of this (very different for 2000) idea? Were they all immediately excited, or were any apprehensive?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think this is the point and it's well said. I know people who have gaming as their day job, and they are just about my age, which is to say old. They have kids, a mortgage and some still have student loans. I can't imagine being in a situation where you are 30 days away from needing a new job based on entirely arbitrary standards and where the person making that decision doesn't want you doing that job.

I mean I 100% understand and more or less agree (since this announcement the financial and stress strain on people has been 99% of my concern)
However you just described half the people I know that work bad jobs. Walmart, Sears, Gas Station, Pizza Hut, Duncan Doughnuts, heck some call centers. You work with a sword of Damocles over your head that a single misstep (not worth even mentioning as a mistake) and a manager in a bad mood is you are gone. Heck a down turn in sales got one of my friends 'layed off' right before covid when he himself was the best seller... the reason, he was the 'most expensive' since he got more bonuses.

SO yeah, I can't imagine today in my 40's working like that. However I know people who do. I have a woman that I met LARPing Vampire in the 90's, and she works at Walmart. She has seen people fired over literally no issue. She wakes up terrified of losing her job. She lives with a daughter (1 or 2 kids she raised as a single parent) and her 2 grandchildren... she is the main income.
I have never worked in gaming. I don't know if it's like me and my buddies with decent (I would not say any of us have good or great) jobs and feel secure week to week month to month... or is it like retail where you could just be fired on a whim. I am guessing it has to be closer to my current experience because the way you just described this change...

NOw I want to make sure I am 100% clear, NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THAT. However the fact that this may turn into what at least some of the fans already live like reminds me how bad the job situation is in general.
WotC please don't turn good office jobs into Walmart and Pizza Hut. PLEASE.

 

[eyeheartawk]

WotC please don't turn good office jobs into Walmart and Pizza Hut. PLEASE.

Why would WOTC/Hasbro be different from any other corporation?

This is the system working as designed.

The cruelty is the point.

 

[Reynard]

Why would WOTC/Hasbro be different from any other corporation?

This is the system working as designed.

The cruelty is the point.

Please. The profit/growth is the point.

 

[billd91]

Please. The profit/growth is the point.

I can't help but feel they could have pursued profit/growth without being quite the titanic pricks they're being now.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Please. The profit/growth is the point.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

The cruelty is intentional as it's neccessary to exploit all the things, to achieve the profit.