D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[Bill Zebub]

How about an analogue to Smite spells: a list of custom Druid spells that can only be cast in beast form. (Apologies if that has already been suggested in this thread.)

 

[mellored]

Of course. I expect your save bonuses to carry over however. So it beeds tweaking. And still, running back with 40 speed or fly in the air is better than standing in the back usually.

Standing in the back casting spells.
Summon a creature turn one, sleet storm turn 2, produce flame turn 3.

Much different than summon turn 1, wild shape turn 2, run away turn 3.

 

[mellored]

True, but we sort of end up back in the same exact situation.

If it buffs concentration then you want to cast the spell, then transform, which is an action. That isn't great.

Hence why I suggest it be a bonus action at 5.
Might be better to just have it a bonus action for everyone at level 1.

This puts you more at risk of losing concentration (potentially) than if you had simply stayed at range....
That almost seems WAY too strong for a 1st level ability.

Those 2 statements seem to contradict each other.

Is it weaker than staying at range, or too strong?

I will also point out the artificer mind sharpener, available at level 2.
4x per day, turn a failed concentration save into a success.

As well as the fact that, with the current wording, you would lose advantage on saves from warcaster feat.

If all wildshaping is bonus action, then it would work as a combat ability, but we would also need to change the Moon Druid.

Yes. Though IMO, the bonus action unarmed attack works pretty well. Add some control options.
Also just a more THP could work too. Like the base form gets 3* level, and moon druid gets 6*level.

I'm still flip-flopping on wildshape as a reaction to reduce damage. I like it, but I don't like it.

¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[mellored]

How about an analogue to Smite spells: a list of custom Druid spells that can only be cast in beast form. (Apologies if that has already been suggested in this thread.)

Venom SmBite:
Casting Time: Bonus Action, which you take immediately after hitting a target with a an Unarmed Strike
As you hit the creature, it takes an extra 2d6 poison damage and gains the poisoned condition. The creature can make a Fortitude save at the end of each of it's turns to end this condition.
Special: you can cast this spell even if you are in wild shape.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Venom SmBite:
Casting Time: Bonus Action, which you take immediately after hitting a target with a an Unarmed Strike
As you hit the creature, it takes an extra 2d6 poison damage and gains the poisoned condition. The creature can make a Fortitude save at the end of each of it's turns to end this condition.
Special: you can cast this spell even if you are in wild shape.

I was also thinking of non-damage and/or defensive options. The most obvious idea is something with THP, but also some kind of web spray, a movement-based spell (a kind of "Free Action" sort of thing), etc.

Also faerie fire should be on the list.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Standing in the back casting spells.
Summon a creature turn one, sleet storm turn 2, produce flame turn 3.

Much different than summon turn 1, wild shape turn 2, run away turn 3.

You really have it wrong...

Summon turn one.
Wildshape turn one.
Run away turn one.

I did spell it out. Action, bonus action, move.
But really, it is just not my main point. My point was, that trading a 2nd level spell slot for hypothetical 20thp and a bonus action is not that bad. Actually 20 thp is more than enough to mitigate damage from most bonus action or non actions that use a 2nd level spell slot.

Edit: Later you can even use your bonus actions to turn into an animal and turn back for free, using the forms for enhanced mobility.

 

[mellored]

I was also thinking of non-damage and/or defensive options. The most obvious idea is something with THP, but also some kind of web spray, a movement-based spell (a kind of "Free Action" sort of thing), etc.

Also faerie fire should be on the list.

Would it be bad of you could just cast all spells in beast form from level 1?

Then base wild shape is then turning AC into movement.
And only moon druid get useful melee attacks.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hence why I suggest it be a bonus action at 5.
Might be better to just have it a bonus action for everyone at level 1.

That would certainly make "Druids use wildshape for combat" work better.

Those 2 statements seem to contradict each other.

That is because you combined two statements while removing the context that explained them.

A generic "buff concentration" can mean many things, it can be a +4 to concentration saves like the War wizard got, it could be advantage like War Caster gets. And many of those buffs can seem good, but actuality put you at greater risk, because you end up going into combat more.

"I am unable to fail concentration checks" may be too powerful, as it may be too powerful of a buff to concentration.

I will also point out the artificer mind sharpener, available at level 2.
4x per day, turn a failed concentration save into a success.

That is pretty powerful, but it could be more limited by x4 per day. Your solution can give a lot more than that. Additionally, where the Artificer has a lot of non-concentration spells that may be worth casting, Druids... don't.

Yes. Though IMO, the bonus action unarmed attack works pretty well. Add some control options.
Also just a more THP could work too. Like the base form gets 3* level, and moon druid gets 6*level.

I don't think the bonus action melee and increased THP alone would work. It is some control, but that isn't enough to bring a subclass to life. The THP is just needed to make it viable, so it is just a minor bit of control?

¯\(ツ)/¯

Yeah, I wish I could articulate what bothers me about it, but I can't.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Would it be bad of you could just cast all spells in beast form from level 1?

Then base wild shape is then turning AC into movement.
And only moon druid get useful melee attacks.

At that point, what is the point of wildshape in combat?

Just movement doesn't seem good enough.

 

[mellored]

A generic "buff concentration" can mean many things

Sure. 3 options off the top of my head.
-until your THP runs out
-+Wis to the save
-automaticlly save x times

"I am unable to fail concentration checks" may be too powerful, as it may be too powerful of a buff to concentration.

Haven't done the math, but I was thinking a turn or 2 of being attacked. More than that and you probably have too much THP.

That is pretty powerful, but it could be more limited by x4 per day. Your solution can give a lot more than that. Additionally, where the Artificer has a lot of non-concentration spells that may be worth casting, Druids... don't.

Artificers can hand that out to anyone.
But this is getting a bit off-topic.

I don't think the bonus action melee and increased THP alone would work. It is some control, but that isn't enough to bring a subclass to life. The THP is just needed to make it viable, so it is just a minor bit of control?

At level 3.
At level 6, you get something else. Like new forms.

At that point, what is the point of wildshape in combat?

Concentration was the only thing I could think of. But that doesn't seem to be working. So maybe just don't use wild shape in combat.

How about

1: Wild shape: Scout or Travel forms that someone else mentioned.

5: Expend a use of channel nature to turn a failed concentration save into a successful one.

And leave "combat wildshape" as a moon druid thing.
3: Bonus action transform, scaling THP, bonus action unarmed strike
6: chose a special features (web, venom, reach, fly by attack, ect...)
10: elemental resistance and damage
14: transform as a reaction