D&D General So what is high level play like?

[Vael]

... And how often have you played at higher levels?

Because TBH, while I have played DnD since 3.5, it was only 4e that got to upper levels, as I had a campaign get to mid-Paragon Tier, and we played a few Epic One-shots. And even there, since I did a lot of Organized play in 4e ... I'd say the vast majority of my time playing DnD 4e was below 5th level.

I never got to play past level 6 in 3.5, and I've gotten to 9th or 10th level in 5e twice (Curse of Strahd and Descent into Avernus) before those campaigns wrapped up.

And I wouldn't call myself an irregular player, I've had a stable RPG group that's managed to play mostly weekly for over 5 years now. But between changing campaigns/DMs/Systems ... high level play is something I've not done.

So, first ... is this a common experience? Do you play primarily at low or high levels? How is higher level play different?

 

[SlyFlourish]

I've run a few high level 5e campaigns over the years. I love them and I love the scope and scale of the story. I think it's awesome to see paladins in hell facing balors.

But mechanically it's really hard. It's so much easier to run games for 3rd level characters than 17th level characters. They have so many capabilities, so many combinations, so many tools at their disposal that keeping up is really tough. I was talking to my wife last night about how the whole game changes when characters have access to banish and polymorph. Suddenly no single creature, no matter how big it is or how much damage it does, is much of a threat if it fails a single saving throw. Later on with spells like force cage and wall of force, it's even worse because even legendary resistance doesn't help.

I've started working on some "house rules" to help account for this sort of thing. Instead of directly nerfing spells, I'm trying an approach of "bosses are different". Here's what I have:

Bosses in our games are often more powerful than other monsters. Many “save or suck” effects won’t work on a boss like they do on other monsters. Bosses often have Legendary Resistance even if they’re not full legendary monsters.

Further, bosses can use Legendary Resistance to break other debilitating effects. An armored boss can rip off their armor to avoid the disadvantage of heat metal. A death knight can tear open a force cage. A dragon’s breath can sometimes pierce resistances and immunities. Bosses likely can’t likely be charmed or stunned. Save crowd control abilities for the boss’s minions. I’ll warn you if a spell isn’t likely to work on a boss before you waste the spell and action.

This is trying to take an approach of saying "yeah, I know what the spell says, but that doesn't work like you think on 'boss' monsters.". I don't really know if its a great idea or not yet.

 

[payn]

Easy to play, hard to DM.

This is it in a nutshell.

Have played too few games to have a great knowledge, but from what little I've seen, high-level play can actually be a ton of fun because you actually have things to DO, and choices to make, especially if you're a caster of some kind. You have tools and tricks to deal with a variety of situations.

I genuinely find most "low-level" play incredibly boring in 3e/PF and 5e, so it's always nice to see a group start higher up and get some real mechanics to sink my teeth into.

A lot of the difference will, of course, be in perspective. For some folks doing things results from the power of the characters. Higher level characters will have a variety of fantastic abilities that require fantastic challenges.

 

[the Jester]

I've run high level games in all WotC editions. 3.5 is the worst experience because the game becomes so complicated and unwieldy and time consuming to prepare for. 4e is pretty fun, but the game is still faster and snappier in the first ten levels or so, maybe up to the low teens. 5e is a pretty similar experience, although getting the desired level of challenge in fights is much more difficult in 5e than 4e. I don't really enjoy level 12+ 5e because while it is fun to play with very high stakes, combat encounters drag and are much less dynamic and snappy than 5e around levels 5-10.

High level D&D improves massively if you import some 4e monster design principles. Late 4e was the sweet spot of D&D monster design, at least in my opinion and judgment and to my tastes.

 

[Vael]

So, this leads me to another question ... the vibe I'm getting is most who play at high levels are not running or playing in pre-published adventures, and the issue is that most of the players I play with primarily stick to those.

Which leads me to ask: Are there high level modules (for 5e mainly) that are recommended?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I played high level several times in the TSR days, but never got past 8th or so in 3e, and never run past 13th in 5e. Did a one-shot in the high twenties for my 4e game once (a flash forward).

 

[OB1]

So, this leads me to another question ... the vibe I'm getting is most who play at high levels are not running or playing in pre-published adventures, and the issue is that most of the players I play with primarily stick to those.

Which leads me to ask: Are there high level modules (for 5e mainly) that are recommended?

There is DotMM, but the biggest issue with modules for high level PCs is that it's very hard to design for any combination of classes and magic items at high levels. I've had 1 party with no full casters and another with more than half, and those were two very different Tier IV adventures. To me, that's a feature, not a bug, since I've found it's also important to allow the PCs to really drive the plot at those higher levels as well.

 

[Enrico Poli1]

Hi!
My favourite levels to play are 9-13 (in all editions except BECMI: Lvl 15-18), when the players are really powerful but the game doesn't fall apart. Yet.

There is a ton of great adventures you can try. Return to the Tomb of Horrors. Die Vecna Die! The City of Skulls. Have fun!

 

[Richards]

We never got very high level in our 1E/2E AD&D campaigns (most of which fizzled away before too long), but in 3.0/3.5 I've run two entire campaigns from 1st level all the way through 20th, and am running a current campaign destined to do the same (the PCs are currently at 11th level in that one). Likewise, my son has DMed two 3.5 campaigns from levels 1-20 (and one Skylanders campaign using the D&D 3.5 rules before those two that ended - on purpose - at 15th level). And the current campaign in which I'm a player is at 8th level at the moment but is planned to go to 20th as well.

I agree with a few earlier observations that high-level 3.5 campaigns are tough to DM and the prep time can be quite lengthy, but I don't mind either of those. Part of the fun of high-level play is getting to use some of the monsters that aren't really viable opponents at lower levels, because they'd TPK the party in no time flat. And part of the fun in writing higher-level adventures is coming up with scenarios where the players will still be challenged.

Johnathan

 

[Nutation]

So, this leads me to another question ... the vibe I'm getting is most who play at high levels are not running or playing in pre-published adventures, and the issue is that most of the players I play with primarily stick to those.

Which leads me to ask: Are there high level modules (for 5e mainly) that are recommended?

I've run several Adventurers League modules at tier 4. They do have high level spellcasters, and that part of it can devolve into old-fashioned rocket tag in 3rd edition style. I've literally had party and NPCs trading meteor swarms. Important NPCs absolutely must have legendary resistance, but as mentioned before, that's not enough.
The challenge or the fight is normally set in an environment that presents additional, unusual challenges. Planar lock is common, so that Banishment and Plane Shift don't work. Breathing is difficult, gravity is funny, etc. There might be a powerful neutral party that can be lured into assisting one side or another.
Besides the overt fights, these modules will also contain skill challenges to handle other problems, such as diplomatic maneuvering or navigating the astral sea. It's not unusual for the writer to throw in made-up rules for unique circumstances. The writer typically includes a list of suggested solutions plus the catch-all phrase advising the DM to adjudicate imaginative uses of Polymorph, Wish, or whatever.
These modules get plenty of play in AL.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I have run 2e from 4th-20th level(ish) and 3e from 1st-24th plus several 3e one-shots from 18-30th level. I was in a 2e/Primal Order campaign at 30th level and am playing in a 5e game currently at 14th. (I skipped 4e aside from some one shots due to life being not campaign friendly)

The trick, imo, to high level play is to lean into the power and expect it to be used. It helps as a DM to do one shots about 5 levels higher than your comfort level/current campaign so you can see people going nova with characters they aren't attached to. The gonzo play will help reset your idea of "normal".